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by GakuseiDon
Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Are you contending that these people thought that the figure of IS XS appeared in history as a god, or a deity, or a spirit, or a mythological being rather than a historical "fleshy" human being? That's right. So if Marcion, for example, had a time machine, he'd have thought he could go b...
by GakuseiDon
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 184

Re: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?

Thanks, GakuseiDon, for giving an example showing that some ancient people did claim cases of non-existence. You're welcome. I think it's an important point to keep in mind, that there was a certain amount of skepticism about fantastic beliefs in ancient times. Origen also writes on this: http://ww...
by GakuseiDon
Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 184

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

GDon The title of your thread asked the question: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted? Your OP went on to define what you mean by 'historical Jesus'. ' 'By 'historical Jesus', I mean a figure living around 30 CE who inspired the Gospel stories, even if the Gospel stories th...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:56 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

What about the reports (above) of those "who confess not that Jesus Christ (IS XS) is come in the flesh"? It stands to reason there were people who doubted IS XS appeared in the flesh. Yes, I agree. Could these people be doubting whether IS XS appeared in history as a human being? Yes. It...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Peter Kirby wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:42 pmAnd what are your thoughts on these texts and these passages?
I've never looked into the Recognitions passage. The others seem to involve questioning whether Christ has come, rather than whether Jesus existed.
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

Again in this case, most of the comment exploring the interpretation also came from me at the time. Likewise, it can be discussed, but I don't know if I would defend what I wrote then. Yes, there are no doubt there are texts that people can point to (which they have done in this thread) where the i...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

I have never found a single convincing piece of evidence that anyone denied the historicity of Jesus prior to the 1600s. The earliest evidence I've ever found was Hugo Grotius responding to people (unnamed) claiming Jesus didn't exist by producing evidence of his existence from non-Christian source...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:07 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Date of Marcion
Replies: 14
Views: 229

Re: The Date of Marcion

Tertullian wrote in "The Prescription against Heretics": http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/tertullian11.html Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men l...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:48 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 184

Re: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?

I would just add, likewise, that even without such biases in the documentary record, we also don't find examples of people claiming that the Sibyls never existed either, or really hundreds or thousands of figures which it is now widely assumed, never existed. Actually, we do. For example, in Tatian...
by GakuseiDon
Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:51 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 32
Views: 464

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

As you indicated above re my question on crucifixion - ''not necessarily I suppose' - then, I would suggest, that is a good starting point when looking for a figure, during the time of Tiberius and Pilate, that might have left his footprint..... Fair point, but this thread isn't about looking for s...