Search found 668 matches

by TedM
Mon May 22, 2017 2:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.
Replies: 24
Views: 1395

Re: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.

Good points Ben. Thanks. See, I think that John was written with (an)other gospel account(s) in mind. First, after reporting in 3.22 the baptisms that Jesus was effecting along with his disciples in Judea, and then mentioning in 3.23 that John the baptist was simultaneously baptizing in Aenon near S...
by TedM
Sun May 21, 2017 12:02 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.
Replies: 24
Views: 1395

Re: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.

Wow, 24:12 - for some reason that wasn't in my memory at all. Interesting. Scales are tipping... RE who the beloved is - I'm going to have to pass. I know that's the tradition but don't know how strong the support is for that. I find it to be a strange phrase "the disciple whom Jesus loved" - one th...
by TedM
Sun May 21, 2017 11:42 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.
Replies: 24
Views: 1395

Re: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.

Ted, would you agree that, if this disciple really did the things attributed to him in the fourth canonical gospel, then the other evangelists (or let us say mainly Mark) did some work to write him out of things? For example, Mark says that all of Jesus' followers fled, and then has only women at t...
by TedM
Sun May 21, 2017 11:12 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.
Replies: 24
Views: 1395

Re: A suggestion regarding the beloved disciple.

I have given much thought to these references to the beloved disciple over the years, and would like to make a somewhat simple suggestion concerning him. Two ideas stand in conflict for me. First, most if not all of the references feel so very artificial; it is as if somebody read Mark and perhaps ...
by TedM
Tue May 16, 2017 2:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

hat do you think of the messianic secret? I will grant that it is not impossible for Jesus to have thought he was the Messiah and told his followers to keep it a secret, but does it not, on the other hand, appear to be a pretty good way to designate him as the Messiah only after the fact? Which goe...
by TedM
Tue May 16, 2017 11:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

Ok, I understand what you are saying here. I would suppose that you might find it difficult to believe ANYTHING written about what kind of person he was or the kinds of things he talked about and did then, if those things are consistent with what one might expect of the Messiah. That is correct. It...
by TedM
Tue May 16, 2017 10:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

Ok, I understand what you are saying here. I would suppose that you might find it difficult to believe ANYTHING written about what kind of person he was or the kinds of things he talked about and did then, if those things are consistent with what one might expect of the Messiah. ETA: I argued a whil...
by TedM
Tue May 16, 2017 6:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

ETA: I argued a while ago in another thread that the blasphemy charge at the trial in Mark makes it look like Jesus brought his own fate down on himself: the witnesses were gathered, their stories were not matching up, and so bam, Jesus drops some open, unmistakable blasphemy into the mix, thus gua...
by TedM
Mon May 15, 2017 9:13 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

But if they weren't subtle he wouldn't have been rejected, and thus no resurrection and salvation. And on the MJ side if they weren't subtle it wouldn't have take 500 years to construct such a story and have it be believable. I think we are working from very different premises here. I do not think ...
by TedM
Mon May 15, 2017 12:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven
Replies: 16
Views: 901

Re: Interesting texts regarding the Man from heaven

One of the complicating factors is the possibility that a man decided himself to 'fulfill' an emerging view of the Christ from scripture. Yes, that is a possibility. It is one that I do not prefer, however, partly because of the phenomenon known as the messianic secret, which looks to me like a way...