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by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:13 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 2
Views: 50

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

And what's in a name? Well, for one thing, considering whether Against Heresies considered the Marcionites to be 'gnostics' could shed light on both. We already see in the first post some clues from what Irenaeus writes about why some were styled 'gnostics'. Their claim to 'perfect knowledge' (gnosi...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 2
Views: 50

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

Apart from Tatian, all of these possible non-gnostic heretics appear in this section of Against Heresies, book 1. CHAP. XXVI.--DOCTRINES OF CERINTHUS, THE EBIONITES, AND NICOLAITANES. 1. Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated(8) in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:24 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 2
Views: 50

According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

It seems like a simple question, but Irenaeus provides vague remarks on the subject. I've written about how, in the account of Irenaeus, Simon (whose immediate successor is Menander) is considered to be the first heretic, and several different heresies sprang from there. I outlined this as follows: ...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 188

Re: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?

Thanks, GakuseiDon, for giving an example showing that some ancient people did claim cases of non-existence. According to Eusebius, Agrippa Castor wrote that Basilides invented prophets for himself that had no existence (E. H. 4.7.6-7): Of these there has come down to us a most powerful refutation ...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:54 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Replies: 43
Views: 589

Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom

I'm not sure if the Ascents of James should be in both options though, even after all you've said, since James doesn't die in that account. In all the other accounts (in both of your options) James dies. If there was an oral tradition that James was beaten to death that started it all, why did the ...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:12 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Replies: 43
Views: 589

Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom

Are you claiming that there were never any oral traditions or Christian stories told about the death of James prior to Hegesippus? Good question, and I guess my answer is no I"m not saying that, since it was surely a big event for Christians (and I also think the James passage in Josephus is g...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Replies: 43
Views: 589

Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom

You're not interacting with what I wrote at all here. I pointed out the parallels in a much more detailed way already, and I already concluded that there is a literary relationship between them. It just seems simpler to suppose that Hegesippus was known to Clement and whoever wrote the Second Apoca...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:14 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 17
Views: 323

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

Ken Olson wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:00 pm Giuseppe is ready to accept that Basilides knew Luke as an obvious fact, but I am going to post the case for it here anyway.
I'm also ready to accept this, and I'm curious where we can go with it.
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:04 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Replies: 43
Views: 589

Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom

To be fair to you, John2, you're not the only one who gets this feeling here. Similar impressions are frequently noted in the literature. There's something to be said for the gravitational weight that the story in Hegesippus holds for some people. Hegesippus and/or Josephus is generally someone's fi...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom
Replies: 43
Views: 589

Re: The Legend of James the Just and His Martyrdom

And the Second Apocalypse sounds like it's based on Hegesippus too. And they were there and found him standing beside the columns of the temple beside the mighty corner stone. And they decided to throw him down from the height, and they cast him down. And they [...] they [...]. They seized him and ...