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by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:14 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 23
Views: 138

Re: History trumps Theology

maryhelena wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:57 am Ah, but slogans have their own power to concentrate the minds of the consumer. History trumps Theology....might even raise a debate that the issue needs attending.
Slogans are a substitute where evidence in favor of a theory doesn't exist.
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:44 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 19
Views: 396

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

If we accept also that canonical Luke knew and used Matthew, then that places all three synoptic gospels before c. 130 CE. It may be interesting to mention Papias also in this connection. Remarks about Papias generally place him in the reign of Trajan. Most of the references occur in a context that...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:11 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 23
Views: 138

Re: History trumps Theology

If there's an intellectual graveyard, then there is also a history of it, and all theology is also part of history. Indeed, there is a history of theology.... A written history or archaeological finds deemed to relate to theological ideas and practice. Scott Atran does good work "In God's We T...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 23
Views: 138

Re: History trumps Theology

If there's an intellectual graveyard, then there is also a history of it, and all theology is also part of history.
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:40 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 23
Views: 138

History trumps Theology

Discussion proceeds better when a topic can be explored more fully in its own thread, rather than as tangents in many different threads. This thread will gather some of these tangents so that they can be discussed here as a subject in its own right in this thread.
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:28 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 152

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

What I'm saying is that I think understanding "Gnostics" has to do with the origins of the cult as a mystery religion, that then "escaped" into the wild. Irenaeus and Justin are, I think, late commers who were never a part of the mystical origins of the cult. These other people ...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 152

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

Revisiting some of the references to 'gnostics' and 'knowledge' in book 1 of Against Heresies . ... that they may appear more perfect than the perfect, and more knowing than the very Gnostics ... They tell us, however, that this knowledge has not been openly divulged, because all are not capable of ...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:06 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel priority
Replies: 99
Views: 2065

Re: Gospel priority

Steven Avery wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:07 am You are right that only a couple of those ones from Ben are Luke, they are a mixture of the Gospels preceding Mark. (Leading to Matthew and likely John also preceding Mark, as well as Luke.)

So I will work on a full presentation showing Luke-Mark connections.
Thanks!
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 152

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

As for "gnosticism", I do think that this whole thing can be traced back to some sort of Hellenistic or Roman mystery religion. The OP isn't about Christian origins, and it isn't even about "Gnosticism" as an analytic category that we might use to define some aspect of ancient r...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:54 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 152

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

one problem is the gnostic texts in the NHL library fail to hat-tip Simon at all as their founder, and on the contrary some are seen to oppose him outright so far i've not seen anything that supports interpreting Simon as the founder of Gnosticism and that is not necessarily contra Irenaeus or the ...