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by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:40 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: History trumps Theology
Replies: 8
Views: 26

History trumps Theology

Discussion proceeds better when a topic can be explored more fully in its own thread, rather than as tangents in many different threads. This thread will gather some of these tangents so that they can be discussed here as a subject in its own right in this thread.
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:28 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

What I'm saying is that I think understanding "Gnostics" has to do with the origins of the cult as a mystery religion, that then "escaped" into the wild. Irenaeus and Justin are, I think, late commers who were never a part of the mystical origins of the cult. These other people ...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

Revisiting some of the references to 'gnostics' and 'knowledge in book 1 of Against Heresies . ... that they may appear more perfect than the perfect, and more knowing than the very Gnostics ... They tell us, however, that this knowledge has not been openly divulged, because all are not capable of r...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:06 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel priority
Replies: 99
Views: 2039

Re: Gospel priority

Steven Avery wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:07 am You are right that only a couple of those ones from Ben are Luke, they are a mixture of the Gospels preceding Mark. (Leading to Matthew and likely John also preceding Mark, as well as Luke.)

So I will work on a full presentation showing Luke-Mark connections.
Thanks!
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

As for "gnosticism", I do think that this whole thing can be traced back to some sort of Hellenistic or Roman mystery religion. The OP isn't about Christian origins, and it isn't even about "Gnosticism" as an analytic category that we might use to define some aspect of ancient r...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:54 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

one problem is the gnostic texts in the NHL library fail to hat-tip Simon at all as their founder, and on the contrary some are seen to oppose him outright so far i've not seen anything that supports interpreting Simon as the founder of Gnosticism and that is not necessarily contra Irenaeus or the ...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

the two biggest problems that Irenaeus had were Valentinians and Marcionites. Perhaps, but I always considered the Marcosians to be one of Irenaeus' biggest targets. I read Irenaeus as saying that Marcus sprang from Valentinus, and to the extent that Marcus was an opponent, it enhances the profile ...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

The dividing line between Gnostic Christians and non-Gnostic (like proto-orthodox, Ebionites) was that the Gnostics believed that the Creator god was not the true God I don't think there's just one "The dividing line" between Gnostic Christians and non-Gnostic. For example, I think Clemen...
by Peter Kirby
Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:13 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

And what's in a name? Well, for one thing, considering whether Against Heresies considered the Marcionites to be 'gnostics' could shed light on both. We already see in the first post some clues from what Irenaeus writes about why some were styled 'gnostics'. Their claim to 'perfect knowledge' (gnosi...
by Peter Kirby
Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 143

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

Apart from Tatian, all of these possible non-gnostic heretics appear in this section of Against Heresies, book 1. CHAP. XXVI.--DOCTRINES OF CERINTHUS, THE EBIONITES, AND NICOLAITANES. 1. Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated(8) in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by...