Search found 158 matches

by Ken Olson
Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:47 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

I think the 'source criticism' approach might suggest that there was a common source underneath both. I don't see or can't explain why Hegesippus added that detail. It might have been left out of Eusebius's Josephus which is the ancestor of our existing copies of Josephus - perhaps because of its p...
by Ken Olson
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:26 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Let me ask the same question a different way. Pseudo-Hegesippus presumably knew the version of the Paulina story from Josephus's Antiquities. But he adds the element of Paulina possibly becoming pregnant and giving birth to a god, which is not found in Josephus. He says to the awakened woman that he...
by Ken Olson
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:29 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Here's Pseudo-Hegsipuus's version: IV. With him ruling the notorious mockery of Paulina a woman of the most respectable type was made well known at Rome. Who although she had an excellent reputation for chastity, was moreover of outstanding beauty and eminent loveliness, neither tempted nor affected...
by Ken Olson
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Sections of the Excidio, certainly. I'm asking about his version of the Paulina story specifically. I'm not sure what it is about his version of the story that's so pro-Christian while the version in the Sefer Yosippon is seen as anti-Christian polemic. Is this just because of the works in which the...
by Ken Olson
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

I have a question or two I'd like pose to anyone who might be following this thread. I admit my views on the Sefer Yosippon have derived from secondary sources, particularly David Flusser. I wrote that it was dependent on Pseudo-Hegesippus's version of the Paulina story and that it was an anti-Chris...
by Ken Olson
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Here's an English translation of the version of the Paulina story from the Sefer Yosippon. 34. Paulina, or the Deed of Shame in the Temple Source: D. Günzberg and A. Kahana, eds., Josippon, pp. 358-361 Now I shall relate one of the shameful incidents which occurred in the days of the Emperor Tiberiu...
by Ken Olson
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Ken, I think that you are suggesting that the coincidences between Jesus' and Paul's stories and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia are just that - coincidences and not real allusions. You are also suggesting that before the 17th century, earlier writers didn't perceive the story of Paulina to refer...
by Ken Olson
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Rakovsky wrote: One thing that I like about this forum is that there are thoughtful participants like yourself who are interested in these topics and are also critical minded and engaging. Aw shucks. I think that the way that the parallels in the chiasms of this chapter are developed antithetically ...
by Ken Olson
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:49 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

I am not aware that anyone claimed Josephus was alluding to Jesus in the Paulina story before Johannes Cloppenburg in 1634 . If you know of any writers in the early centuries AD who did, please cite and quote them. Sure, Ken, I made some references in the OP. Karl Kautsky notes in Foundations of Ch...
by Ken Olson
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:52 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?
Replies: 39
Views: 4054

Re: What is the real relationship between the Testamonium and the stories of Paulina and Fulvia?

Ken, I pick up on coincidences more than some people do. You do; but perhaps you draw more incorrect inferences by overinterpreting data that are, in fact, coincidences, than do people who apply better critical judgment than you do. I was tempted to refer to what you're doing as parallelomania, but...