Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

I'm a sucker for happy endings, but he *did* ask for Peter to pray for him. The guy who Christ is building his kingdom on. The key holder. The first pope. And Faul's worst enemy :) If even handkerchiefs that Peter touched could cure cancer, I have to believe that--like a lost lamb to the fold, Simo...

What's Iraneus's chain of apostolic descent? Why does he tell us all about Marcion's, but nothing about his own?? It's in AH 3.3.4: 4. But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Churc...

I knew I shouldn't have said "gnostic" for this very reason, but all I meant is "people who are generally called or associated with gnostics"/"people who came after James and corrupted the Church." And the portrait of Simon Magus in Acts 8 seems fairly harsh to me: 18Wh...

For me, Hegesippus makes it clear that Marcion was just another name on a list of gnostics who sprang up after James died. EH 4.22.4. The same author [Hegesippus] also describes the beginnings of the heresies which arose in his time, in the following words: And after James the Just had suffered mart...

I'm not sure if the Ascents of James should be in both options though, even after all you've said, since James doesn't die in that account. In all the other accounts (in both of your options) James dies. If there was an oral tradition that James was beaten to death that started it all, why did the A...

Are you claiming that there were never any oral traditions or Christian stories told about the death of James prior to Hegesippus? Good question, and I guess my answer is no I"m not saying that, since it was surely a big event for Christians (and I also think the James passage in Josephus is g...

You're not interacting with what I wrote at all here. I pointed out the parallels in a much more detailed way already, and I already concluded that there is a literary relationship between them. It just seems simpler to suppose that Hegesippus was known to Clement and whoever wrote the Second Apoca...

I'm still not sure I understand the "Hegesippus combined two sources" idea. After taking another look at Clement and the Second Apocalypse of James, I'm inclined to suspect that these two sources used Hegeisppus, since they both post-date Hegesippus (Clement having been born when Hegesippu...

So for me this beating is a separate event in James' life unique to the Recognitions (is James' death even mentioned in the Clementine writings? I don't recall offhand and maybe I've missed something in this thread). James' stoning and beating in Hegesippus seems like a complete story to me, given ...

Hegesippus: this source combines pre-existing stories, including a story about the death of James involving the fuller's club and a different story of stoning from the Second Apocalypse of James. I think these stories go together, given that servants of priests are said to have beaten people with c...