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by Ben C. Smith
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

to Ben, I have no real issue with the supposition that the nativity stories were written early(ish) and then tagged on to Luke 3-24, but the same effect is achieved if they were written by a different hand, as well, and then edited into Luke. The main thing is that chapters 1-2 are observably indep...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:27 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Now, if I recall correctly, we both agree, or at least lean towards the possibility (as per MacDonald) that Papias (who I date in any event to c. 100 CE) did not know Luke or Acts. Yes, that is my leaning. For me a c. 100 CE dating of Papias and c. 95 CE for Luke and Acts would fit the idea that th...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:07 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

If the nativity stories were composed after a proto-Luke, these stories would be a lot more concise in order to fit the style & format of the gospel. Cordially, Bernard I have no real issue with the supposition that the nativity stories were written early(ish) and then tagged on to Luke 3-24, but t...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

So your'e saying Ben the incipit to Luke should be read as... Since Marcion has undertaken to write this gospel about those matters which have been fulfilled among us, and since those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also,...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:05 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

When laying out his case against Marcionite priority, Tertullian reaches, not for church tradition, but for exegetical and theological arguments: Tertullian, Against Marcion 4.4.1: 1 We must follow, then, the clue of our discussion, meeting every effort of our opponents with reciprocal vigor. I say ...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

I still definitely think that some sort of proto-Luke (used by Marcion) preceded canonical Luke-Acts. I am pretty sure there was a version of Luke in circulation which lacked Luke 1-2; those chapters are tagged on, and the seams still show. I also tend to think that the use of Josephus came after t...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:03 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Who is the first person to mention the gospel of Luke by that name? I gather Justin Martyr was Marcion's contemporary and is an early (if not the earliest) person to cite things that are in Luke, but he doesn't identify them as being written by Luke (or identify the author of any other gospel by na...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:46 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Marcion's Gospel
Replies: 43
Views: 500

Re: Marcion's Gospel

Who is the first person to mention the gospel of Luke by that name? I gather Justin Martyr was Marcion's contemporary and is an early (if not the earliest) person to cite things that are in Luke, but he doesn't identify them as being written by Luke (or identify the author of any other gospel by na...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:32 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Who is John Mark?
Replies: 84
Views: 947

Re: Who is John Mark?

But were they aware that the Diatessaron contained (most of?) Mark? If so, is that the same as discarding Mark (in their minds)? Not sure, honestly. But doesn't the name Diatessaron itself mean "made of four"? Wouldn't they know it was a combination of four gospels then (and, via contact with other...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:40 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Who is John Mark?
Replies: 84
Views: 947

Re: Who is John Mark?

Based on the above and what I've gathered as a casual observer of Marcion over the years, I'm going to venture a huge (if perhaps worthless) guess that Marcion cherry-picked the parts he liked from various gospels (and perhaps mostly from Luke). Marcion sometimes preserves what appears to be a text...