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by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:40 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

All scholars have this problem. Sexify or not to sexify. It's not as sexy to say here's what the evidence is. Maybe. It sounds like you are saying that Roth avoided Harnack's trap of making textual decisions based on what he thought Marcion would or would not like, but that Roth also fell into othe...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:31 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Roth's book is utter lunacy. Everyone since Harnack has done this "maximal" excavation of any passing reference to any Lukan text made in the same breath as Marcion. But Irenaeus EXPLICITLY SAYS I have the pure text, I have the pristine gospel so there is a mix of "you see why Marcion doesn't like ...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:52 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

I go away for one day for a beach trip and come back to find another great Ben thread idea. I haven't read through the whole thread yet but I've always liked this table from Neil's site. http://vridar.info/xorigins/justinnarr.htm I like that table, too. It is one of about 5 different resources I re...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:50 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was the Vatican Originally Associated with Evil and Magic
Replies: 8
Views: 105

Re: Was the Vatican Originally Associated with Evil and Magic

perseusomega9 wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:50 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:33 am
[Insert X] is a far better guess than anything thus far offered on this thread.
too bad signatures are disabled
:lol:
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:08 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Roth's book is utter lunacy. Everyone since Harnack has done this "maximal" excavation of any passing reference to any Lukan text made in the same breath as Marcion. But Irenaeus EXPLICITLY SAYS I have the pure text, I have the pristine gospel so there is a mix of "you see why Marcion doesn't like ...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Secret Alias wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:52 am
Have you ever read Against Marcion Book 4 end to end?
In its entirety, I doubt it, but I came pretty close at one point in preparation for what I posted in this forum. Why?
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Secret Alias wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:20 am
How does mentioning Marcion in the same breath as a passage tell us whether the passage was in Marcion's gospel?
It does not, and I doubt anyone here thinks it does.
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:17 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Reminder : "unattested in Marcion" = unreferenced in the same breath as Marcion in Patristic commentary." Next to worthless given that Marcion is accused of stealing and corrupting Luke. It's like Dashaun Watson. He's accused of doing bad things. Doesn't mean every accusation is accurate. Some true...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.
Replies: 34
Views: 270

Re: Justin Martyr, the Gospel of Luke, and Marcion.

Can that be correct? Justin does not mention the L material, whether or not it is attested in Marcion. I used a quick and dirty method and may well have missed something. I'd be interested to know if anyone else can confirm or deny this. That does seem quite striking. I have a huge text file full o...
by Ben C. Smith
Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:34 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.
Replies: 120
Views: 63163

Re: Of Nazirites & Naṣoraeans.

These are some of Jones' arguments: A. H. M. Jones, The Cities of the Eastern Roman Provinces , pages 262-264: 262 Our knowledge of northern Syria at the beginning of the reign of Augustus is derived from the official lists of the time. These have been partly preserved, in a very mangled form, in Pl...