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by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:51 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 79
Views: 1163

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

Ben Smith wrote: Hopefully the two comments in my previous post made enough sense to you as to render my response here intelligible. No such luck. You say here that Mark 13.9-13 and 13.14-29 describe the same situation; however, later you say: I take it you're suggesting there is some inconsistency...
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:23 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 79
Views: 1163

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

Scratch this post.
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:04 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 79
Views: 1163

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

Thanks, Ken. I have only two comments for the time being: The term "normal" was perhaps ill chosen on my part. I meant only that there seems to be a time before the sign to flee which is characterized by family members betraying other family members and believers getting arrested. I agree that perse...
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:04 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The date of 2 Thessalonians.
Replies: 76
Views: 3595

Re: The date of 2 Thessalonians.

Secret Alias wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:42 am
We have to be careful about these conclusions.
I agree with this, but Jax asked for the evidence, and I gave (at least some of) it.
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The date of 2 Thessalonians.
Replies: 76
Views: 3595

Re: The date of 2 Thessalonians.

Marcion is said to have had 2 letters to the Thessalonians in his collection. The letter that we now refer to as 1st Thessalonians is thought to be two letters that were combined at some point (1 Thessalonians 1:1-2:12 and 4:3-5:28. as letter A and 1 Thessalonians 2:13-4:2. as letter B). Is it poss...
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:19 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The date of 2 Thessalonians.
Replies: 76
Views: 3595

Re: The date of 2 Thessalonians.

Furthermore, Peter Kirby remarked in http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2thessalonians.html ... I would add the consideration that Ephesians contains allusions to the entire Pauline corpus with the exceptions of 2 Thessalonians and the Pastorals. This suggests that 2 Thessalonians, like the Past...
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:52 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Many will come in my name.
Replies: 30
Views: 481

Re: Many will come in my name.

Even if Bar Kochba claimed to be the Messiah (highly probable), and was recognised as Messiah by Akiva (unclear), they presumably did not use the phrases reported in the Jewish sources. Hence the exact verbal parallel with Mark is probably not relevant. Akiva is purely an extra here, correct? Even ...
by Ben C. Smith
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:23 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Many will come in my name.
Replies: 30
Views: 481

Re: Many will come in my name.

The wording of the claims about Bar Kochba in Jewish sources is certainly later than the Gospels. Even if Bar Kochba claimed to be the Messiah (highly probable), and was recognised as Messiah by Akiva (unclear), they presumably did not use the phrases reported in the Jewish sources. That is a good ...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:33 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Many will come in my name.
Replies: 30
Views: 481

Re: Many will come in my name.

In his article about the synoptic apocalypse (Matthew 24 = Mark 13), Detering argues that both it and the gospels themselves date to after the days of Simon bar Kokhba. By far his best set of arguments derives both from the passages I have posted on this thread ("many will come in my name") and from...
by Ben C. Smith
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:54 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A semantic glitch in Mark 13.24.
Replies: 2
Views: 104

Re: A semantic glitch in Mark 13.24.

I note with interest that Matthew's wording is exactly in line with what we would expect Mark's to be in order to remain internally consistent: Matthew 24.29: 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days [εὐθέως δὲ μετὰ τὴν θλῖψιν τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων] the sun will be darkened, and the moon ...