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by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:03 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

But doesn't Jesus often say "as it is written" and such, including "son of man" stuff, without saying Daniel's name? 9:12: "Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected? 14:21: "The Son of Ma...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

I admit, that is possible. There are several things which I do not find satisfying about it, however. For example, when Jesus later speaks of his hearers, he calls them "you," in the plural (verse 37), whereas in verse 14 "reader" is singular. Also, frankly, I read this passage for years, trying to ...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:45 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

Actually, I think I know your answer: Jesus means "a reader of Daniel," right?
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:45 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

But Mark does not do this. He instead mysteriously says, "Let the reader understand." Why do that instead of asking the reader to consult Daniel? What is the point of leaving out Daniel's name? But I'm suggesting that Mark isn't saying this, but rather Jesus is, to his hearers , who would know what...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:37 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

Ben wrote: That does seem simple. Too simple for me, given that "let the reader understand" sounds like it should not be quite that simple. You and I both have pointed out in various ways how very Danielic the time period in question was. Mark rarely names or points out the scriptural sources of ot...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:34 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

I don't see why multiple flights, on the hypothetical Ben proposes, would be a problem for the persecution hypothesis. Because, on my best reading of the text, "those days" (of tribulation) are inaugurated by the event which precipitates the flight: Mark 13.14-20: 14 "But when [ὅταν] you see the ab...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:52 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: 2 Thessalonians 2.6-7 and Mark 13.14.
Replies: 0
Views: 17

2 Thessalonians 2.6-7 and Mark 13.14.

I have pointed out the apparent constructio ad sensum in this Marcan verse before: Mark 13.14: 14 "But when you see the abomination [τὸ βδέλυγμα, neuter ] of desolation standing [ἑστηκότα, masculine ] where he should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mou...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:44 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

And I've looked at a few commentaries about "the reader" and have stopped looking because it seems simple to me (and I think someone has already suggested it on this thread). This is Jesus -not Mark- saying, "let the reader [i.e., of Daniel, re: the abomination that causes desolation] understand [i...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:20 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: Sources for Simon bar Kokhba.
Replies: 25
Views: 1297

Re: Sources for Simon bar Kokhba.

Whether Akiva recognised Simon as Messiah is, as you suggest, of little importance. However if none of the contemporary rabbis recognised Simon as Messiah (i.e. he was recognised as Messiah by many Jews but he and the rabbis largely ignored each other) then this would probably make rabbinic claims ...
by Ben C. Smith
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Let the reader understand... Again
Replies: 102
Views: 1895

Re: Let the reader understand... Again

So Mark 13.14 represents, on your reading, a command to flee when the time comes for the Roman governor to come to town to judge capital cases which will probably involve compulsory worship of Caesar. But Mark 13.9-13 represent, on your reading, an overlapping period of time during which the Roman ...