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by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:46 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

I wrote a response to David a few minutes ago, but made two mistakes: one about what Charles was claiming and another about what David was saying. I wish the notes were clearer, really. Post deleted. Here are my translations of the Latin and of the Slavonic as rendered in Latin , as best I understan...
by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:31 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

The Internet Archive has Dillmann's 1877 edition: https://archive.org/details/ascensioisaiaeae00dill/page/80 . (I cannot seem to access the 1522 or 1832 editions.) It shows the following: Et princips mundi illius extendet manum suam in filium dei, et occidet illum , et suspendet illum in ligno et o...
by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:08 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

There are two Latin versions. L 1 does not cover this portion of the Ascension. L 2 does, but derives from a single manuscript, according to R. H. Charles: https://archive.org/details/cu31924014590529/page/n21 (lefthand page) . .. I've been wondering why my super-scripted text sits so high (so high...
by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

An addition I should do. The Latin expression: Et princips mundi illius extendet manum suam in filium dei, et occidet illum, et suspendet illum in ligno et occidit nesciens qui sit. ...is very similar in a modern proposition in Italian (I would believe that the thing is seen less in English), since...
by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

Giuseppe wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:16 am
Thanks, Ben!
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:57 am
calling it "an obvious interpolation" in footnote 8.
I like the irony of “”. :whistling:
It is just a direct quotation.
by Ben C. Smith
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:57 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?
Replies: 19
Views: 248

Re: Is Jesus already dead before the cruxifixion?

Could this be a translation issue? The English translation of the Ethiopic version: 9:14 (not 18:14): http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ascension.html And the god of that world will stretch forth his hand against the Son, and they will crucify Him on a tree, and will slay Him not knowing w...
by Ben C. Smith
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:07 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's proprietary invention of "the gospel"
Replies: 3
Views: 81

Re: Paul's proprietary invention of "the gospel"

I wanted to clarify my point about Paul from that other thread. I was not discussing the origins of the Christian usage of the term "gospel." Rather, I was discussing the origins of the texts (specifically, the genre of those texts) which are now known as gospels, but which may not have been known ...
by Ben C. Smith
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:40 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's proprietary invention of "the gospel"
Replies: 3
Views: 81

Re: Paul's proprietary invention of "the gospel"

Subject: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late? I personally think that Paul's influence has been somewhat overblown, and suspect that at least some gospel texts would/could have been written even if Paul had never existed. In some circles, yes, Paul is paramount. I...
by Ben C. Smith
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:49 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Does ‘The man with the withered hand’ (Mk 3:1-6) discuss the issue of warfare on the Sabbath?
Replies: 2
Views: 58

Re: Does ‘The man with the withered hand’ (Mk 3:1-6) discuss the issue of warfare on the Sabbath?

To my eye, the clearest back reference is found in the Hebrew scriptures: Mark 3.1-6: 1 He entered again into a synagogue; and a man was there whose hand was withered [ἐξηραμμένην]. 2 They were watching Him to see if He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. 3 He says to the m...
by Ben C. Smith
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:34 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?
Replies: 14
Views: 252

Re: Significance of the Gospel of Thomas if the Canonical Gospels are late?

Hope this is relevant. Here are some of my questions about the "gospel" title and genre-- 1) What explains the use of the same word for two very different types of writing: bioi (narratives) on the one hand, and wisdom/parenetic discourses on the other (such as gThomas, gPhilip, gTruth) (I personal...