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by Secret Alias
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:46 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century
Replies: 4
Views: 142

Re: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century

Of course here is an attempt to make sense of the mess. i) 'Luke' doesn't make an appearance in the Christian world until Irenaeus actively promoted his involvement in the early Church in the late second century/early third century ii) Ariston of Pella seems to have been known to Christians in the e...
by Secret Alias
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century
Replies: 4
Views: 142

Re: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century

Well here's the dilemma. 1. with the discovery of the Bovon fragment in 2012 it is clear that Sophronius identified Luke as the author of the text properly called 'the Dialogue of Jason and Papiscus' ( Ἰάσωνος καὶ Παπίσκου Διάλογον) 2. Maximus the Confessor notes that Clement of Alexandria, in the s...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

Translation: And later on: “The most illuminating Luke then. reveals this splendid and welcome knowledge to us not by putting down the information in his divine Gospel nor by writing it into the Acts of the Apostles but by recording it in a different work of his, on that he composed in dialogue form...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

This is kind of cool. In 2012 Bovon and Duffy published 'A New Greek Fragment of Ariston of Pella's Dialogue of Jason and Papiscus. It was 'discovered' in a previously unknown homily of Sophronius bishop of Jerusalem. In the course of his rather scholarly presentation the patriarch informs his Jerus...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:27 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

I think the author is quite thoughtful https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/260628/CarletonPaget.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y But one argument he hasn't picked up on is the fact that Eusebius went back and 'corrected' and 'strengthened' Origen's approach to the True Word. In other wo...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:32 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

"Celsus seems to have deemed it advisable, in the interests of his polemic, in dealing with the life and teaching of Christ, to avail himself of the written documents rather than oral traditions" https://books.google.com/books?id=WhtYAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA97&dq=%22celsus+seems+to+have+deemed+it+advisable%22...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:19 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

FWIW Celsus and his examination of 'dialogues' in Origen: But it is clear to him who examines the whole spirit of our dialogues [τὸ κοινὸν διαλόγοις], that Celsus is animated with a hatred against the human race resembling that of the ignorant populace, and gives utterance to these falsehoods withou...
by Secret Alias
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:07 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

Origen has no issue with relating writings that Celsus claimed to have read or known something about, like in 6.40. That's not true. This is like debating the question of whether 'Trump lies.' Sure the President doesn't lie about everything all the time. But he is capable of lying about anything at...
by Secret Alias
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:26 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century
Replies: 4
Views: 142

Re: Clement Dated Luke to the Middle of the Second Century

I don't think so after more reading. I think the work was set in the first century.
by Secret Alias
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Celsus Used Against Marcion?
Replies: 33
Views: 615

Re: Celsus Used Against Marcion?

J. E. Bruns drew attention to this passage in which Anastasius quotes material which he attributes to a disputation between Mnason and the Jewish philosopher Philo.33 Bruns pointed out the participants closely resemble those of JP in the name of the Christian ('Idacov/Mvdaxov) and in the Alexandrian...