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by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

From Peter Brown Treasure in Heaven: These “holy poor” increasingly included exemplars of ascetic virtue. In the words of a dramatic third century legend, the Acts of Judas Thomas: good Christians, of course, were expected to give to the poor; but they were expected to give to the poor; but they wer...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:45 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

Many thought that Christians should give mainly to the "holy poor" -- to the "poor among the saints" to use the phrase of Saint Paul's Letter to the Romans (15:26) when describing his collection for the poor "saints" of the community of Jerusalem. These "holy poor" claimed to give the etherial benef...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

Another point of contrast is the 'holy poor' of Manichaeanism - https://books.google.com/books?id=-RPKCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22the+poor%22+%22early+Christianity%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiS05D0la7lAhXRuZ4KHYgXDk8Q6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=%22the%20poor%22&f=false ht...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:04 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

there were Jewish Christian factions that held these beliefs, even if they all didn't share them. I think this is what has to be cleared up. At bottom there were thousands of illiterate believers who accepted something about a divine man named 'Jesus' being crucified and saving humanity. I think th...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:56 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

But here's where you understanding of Christianity breaks down and I fear it is not just you. 'Christian' was a term reserved for those who had completed the initiation into the religion. There was a swath of believers, hangers on, catechumen - whatever. But the term 'poor' clearly means something o...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:03 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

that they were vegetarians and opposed sacrifices (including the parts of the Torah that command them) and some of the OT prophets. Remember what the early rabbinic literature says about those who refused to eat meat and drink wine because of the loss of the temple. These individuals are clearly in...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

So what I am suggesting is: 1. a large body of the 'poor' from whom the catechumen derived their origins 2. the catechumen being principally raised to die as martyrs 3. the quip that 'they are (really) poor in understanding' to live to die I think Christian communities were built on top of Jewish pr...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

Since I think most people have no clue how a church functioned I think a crash course might be instructive: 1. The narthex, or ante-temple, where the penitents and catechumens stood. 2. The naos, or temple, where the communicants had their respective places. 3. The Bema, or sanctuary, where the cler...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:54 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

What I am suggesting then is that 'Ebionites' are a Pauline mystery position - something akin to catechumen. Somehow this was turned into a sect of Jewish Christianity. And I think I have an explanation for that. If we follow Clement of Alexandria's Christianity - and even that of Ethiopia to this d...
by Secret Alias
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:48 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Epiphanius on the Ebionites
Replies: 102
Views: 4142

Re: Epiphanius on the Ebionites

And it is worth noting that Paul seems to hint at 'poor' being a category in his mystery religion - and Clement's Alexandrian Church already takes over this category as part of its stratagem. Clement cites with special interest the words of Paul: In everything approving ourselves as the servants of ...