Search found 2053 matches

by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 145

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

What I'm saying is that I think understanding "Gnostics" has to do with the origins of the cult as a mystery religion, that then "escaped" into the wild. Irenaeus and Justin are, I think, late commers who were never a part of the mystical origins of the cult. Why were there so ma...
by rgprice
Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:58 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?
Replies: 12
Views: 145

Re: According to Irenaeus, who were the Gnostics?

the two biggest problems that Irenaeus had were Valentinians and Marcionites. Perhaps, but I always considered the Marcosians to be one of Irenaeus' biggest targets. As for "gnosticism", I do think that this whole thing can be traced back to some sort of Hellenistic or Roman mystery relig...
by rgprice
Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:48 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Replies: 18
Views: 372

Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion

I don't find Mills' case convincing, regarding widespread use of canonical Luke prior to Marcion. Unfortunately the sources we have to work from are what they are, but they can hardly be said to be definitive. Necessarily, most of Mills cites is from the 3rd century or later. Even if Clement says th...
by rgprice
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:00 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 291

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

GD's question has merit, its perfectly fine to catalogue such statements. I think a more pertinent question, however, is whether there was anyone who expressed any knowledge of a Jesus person independent of the Gospel accounts. To my knowledge there is no evidence for any such person. Every statemen...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

@Peter I'm not sure why you didn't move your own post above to the other thread... But anyway, Irenaeus seems to be saying that there are Christian "heretics" who teach that Christ taking on human form was "imaginary". Irenaeus seems to be confused here. It would seem that what t...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:43 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 291

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

I would just add, likewise, that even without such biases in the documentary record, we also don't find examples of people claiming that the Sibyls never existed either, or really hundreds or thousands of figures which it is ow widely assumed, never existed. It's relevant to mention in this context...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 291

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

No Jewish or Persian text has questioned the existence of Esther, who was presented as the wife of the great Emperor Xerxes. Yet there is no debate about Esther's non-historicity. If you can invent an emperor's wife without any historian questioning her existence, then you can easily invent a Galil...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:22 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?
Replies: 17
Views: 291

What is implied if Jesus' historicity was not doubted?

I would just add, likewise, that even without such biases in the documentary record, we also don't find examples of people claiming that the Sibyls never existed either, or really hundreds or thousands of figures which it is now widely assumed, never existed. A possible exception to this rule is Orp...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:16 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

@CH The Trypho character in the dialogue is basically skeptical throughout and prefaces everything with, "if", "assuming so", type statements. “ It appears to me ,” said Trypho, “that they who assert that He was of human origin, and was anointed as the Christ only by choice, prop...
by rgprice
Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:47 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?
Replies: 33
Views: 550

Re: Any pre-325 CE writings where Jesus' historicity was doubted?

The 2 Peter 1 bit is with regard to specific miracles, like the transfiguration. Nothing in the text indications this is about the whole of Jesus' historicity. Similarly, the Trypho bit is about whether or not Jesus is the messiah, i.e., Jesus cannot be the Christ (thus, Christians have invented a ...