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by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:55 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet
Replies: 16
Views: 2576

Re: John the Baptist was interpolated in Josephus to distinguish him from the Samaritan Prophet

1 It'd be interesting to know where Mark would have got knowledge of Jesus ben Ananias if it wasn't from Josephus (I presume Weeden thought it might 've been from another source of from first hand knowledge). There are a number of permutations, especially if other similar accounts, such as those of...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

neilgodfrey wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:05 pm

And historical facts are determined by set processes that remove the element of speculation.
Here is a table that points towards what those processes are. "N-f" stands for "non-fiction".

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by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:46 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

To clarify, the claim that a large portion of Mark's narrative was previously known to Mark's readers, should be distinguished from the claim that this material was necessarily historically accurate. E.G. The claim that Mark's readers previously knew stories about Jesus healing people should be dis...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:05 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

But that's what I'm saying is going on in the DSS too. Are the people and events that are "foretold" in the DSS likewise non-historical? Historians do not look at prophecies and use those to determine historical facts. They use historical facts to decide if prophecies were made in hindsight after t...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:01 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

I don't see why the story of Jesus' burial couldn't have had the powers of a mustard seed and flourished in Mark's narrative (whether in Mark's mind or Peter's), but I also don't see why Jesus couldn't have actually been buried in a tomb and Paul just didn't mention it. There are no narrative detai...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:28 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

But that's what "the gospel" is . As Jesus says in Mk. 9:12 and 14:21 (for examples): Exactly. That point actually counts against historicity. It is a hidden thing, it was foretold.... it's nothing to do with history. But it was written as historical narrative. But with no witnesses cited. No infor...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

intertextual origin of Mark's Tomb Burial narrative

The intertextual origin of Mark's Tomb Burial narrative: [43] Joseph of Arimathaea, and honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. Isaiah 53:9 And I will give the wicked for his burial, and the rich for his dea...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:14 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

One more "besides...." -- when ancient authors wanted to persuade readers that their accounts had credibility they gave reasons to believe them: usually those reasons happened to be appeals to eyewitnesses or authoritative reports. The Cor. 15 passage is a statement of faith that must be believed. I...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

Is it really a stretch to suppose from this that Jesus cold have been buried in a tomb? Not a stretch at all. But Paul is citing that as a theological point of faith, not a historical event. Besides, the mere fact of burial is not a story and we have to assume it has the powers of a mustard seed if...
by neilgodfrey
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:50 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 108
Views: 2585

Re: Three Assumptions

If there were people who weren't involved with the 66-70 CE war who nevertheless wrote about it from things they heard, then why couldn't Mark have written about Jesus like Papias says he did (along with "vain and contradictory stories")? He could have, but we have no evidence that he did. Everythi...