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by neilgodfrey
Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:23 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Three Assumptions
Replies: 0
Views: 13

Three Assumptions

Three assumptions seem to be prevalent here. I am not expecting discussion of this point but am simply wanting to express what I see as limitations in some of the discussions. First: Messianism. The assumption that there was an essential concept of what a messiah was and that could be found in a ran...
by neilgodfrey
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:41 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Pilate as a later addition in Mark
Replies: 16
Views: 1570

Re: Pilate as a later addition in Mark

Is it not an impossible «divine» coincidence, the fact that the First Gospel was just one where «both Jew and Gentile are condemned and saved» ? Usually the compromises of this kind (and you would agree that this is a compromise) are reached later , not more before. That's a reasonable inference, a...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:20 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The power of failed prophecy.
Replies: 21
Views: 2786

Re: The power of failed prophecy.

I believe we do have evidence to support the general principle in the OP: When the authors of the gospels of John and Luke saw problems with the prophecies in Mark and Matthew then they qualified them, spiritualized them, as per Ellen G. White wrt the Millerite expectations. So something happened be...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: About another Gospel incipit without John the Baptist
Replies: 15
Views: 128

Re: About another Gospel incipit without John the Baptist

Is it not perhaps equally plausible to argue the reverse: that the texts with stronger anti-Jewish narratives are later, coinciding with the growth of anti-semitism among many Christian cults from the late second century on? I wrote the my reasons to think otherwise: Indeed. Note the very strange w...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:47 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Pilate as a later addition in Mark
Replies: 16
Views: 1570

Re: Pilate as a later addition in Mark

If we start with the view that the Gospel of Mark is a narrativization of Paul's theology, and if we accept that Paul was responsible for the passages bringing Jews and Gentiles together into the one body in Christ, both equally guilty and equally saved, then is there not a ready explanation for Pil...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:53 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Mark knew the Sheperd of Hermas therefore...
Replies: 43
Views: 2211

Re: Mark knew the Sheperd of Hermas therefore...

Hermas is calling the Spirit as «beloved son» and «heir» . . . . . Please, note the difference: Hermas didn 't know Mark, but Mark knew Hermas. Hence Mark was written after Hermas. The Muratorian Canon (44) states the Shepherd was written when Hermas’s brother, Pius (traditionally dated c. 140—c. 1...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: About another Gospel incipit without John the Baptist
Replies: 15
Views: 128

Re: About another Gospel incipit without John the Baptist

In addition to he fact described above, another strong clue of antiquity of this Gospel of 12 apostles is the fact that not Pilate, not even Herod! , is mentioned among the killers of Jesus, but only «the Jews»: But after this, the Jews made a plot against him, the chiefpriests and the elders and t...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was the Original Point of the Christian Story/Myth to Punish or Justify the Punishment of the Jews?
Replies: 7
Views: 167

Re: Was the Original Point of the Christian Story/Myth to Punish or Justify the Punishment of the Jews?

You can stop with the dumb proselytizing dogma anytime now Not just "dumb" proselytizing, but distinctly anti-semitic proselytizing. I am surprised theeternaliam is allowed free rein to spew the sort of medieval antisemitism here that most of us thought was finally shaken to its senses in the last ...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The power of failed prophecy.
Replies: 21
Views: 2786

Re: The power of failed prophecy.

But we don't see reinterpretation in the Gospel of Mark or Gospel of Matthew, do we? We do see it in the Gospel of Luke. Why did not Mark and Matthew reinterpret the supposedly failed prophecy? As far as I can see we have to imagine readers placing a nonintuitive interpretation on the "original" and...
by neilgodfrey
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:28 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Messiah ben Joseph & Galilee; Messiah ben David & Judea.
Replies: 70
Views: 19631

Re: Messiah ben Joseph & Galilee; Messiah ben David & Judea.

Speculation, my turn. We can see the source for a dying messiah and multiple messiahs in the canonical literature. Later rabbinic accounts are most easily explained as deriving from speculations on their Holy Writ than Christianity. Thomas L. Thompson has brought attention to these texts: 1. the ear...