Search found 3294 matches

by Bernard Muller
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:11 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed
Replies: 52
Views: 35177

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

to Charles Wilson, Did Demetrus Eucerus destroyed thoroughly Jerusalem buildings as Mark claimed Jesus prophesied (13:2)? I don't think so. However that corresponds of what Josephus wrote in Antiquity: VII, I, 1 "Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple" VII, I, 1 ...
by Bernard Muller
Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:23 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed
Replies: 52
Views: 35177

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

to Joseph D. L., I could not find in the writings of Irenaeus what you claimed: "Even Irenaeus is hesitant to ascribe it to a heretical sect." Where is the evidence for your claim? I addressed the issue of the dating of Mark also on that webpage http://historical-jesus.info/41.html . I also demonstr...
by Bernard Muller
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:11 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed
Replies: 52
Views: 35177

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

to Joseph D. L., Are you even for real? Revelation has marks in it that indicates that it was written, redacted, re-edited, numerous times. That's another problem I have. We/you treat this text as if it was written in a single setting without giving them their proper historical and textual context. ...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed
Replies: 52
Views: 35177

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

to Joseph D. L. Hell, the 96 ad date for Revelation still gets tossed around as if it's a proven fact. How do they reach this conclusion? Because Irenaeus said John was alive during the reign of Trajan. As far as these cretinous windbags know, it could any year from 96 ad to 117 ad. I think Irenaeus...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:18 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed
Replies: 52
Views: 35177

Re: Gospel of John a Forgery, Johannine Communities Never Existed

The gospel and the 3 epistles attributed to John are obviously not from either John the fisherman or John the elder (who I take as the author of Revelation). Very few on this board would think otherwise. For the ones interested, I made a long study on the 4th gospel, with comments on the author (who...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:03 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke
Replies: 42
Views: 35762

Re: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke

Hi Ben, This is demonstrably illogical. If the internal evidence, to your eye, pointed in the other direction, But the internal evidence point in the direction of the patristic conclusion being true and not the other way around. If a suspect for a crime commuted in city X says he was far away in cit...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke
Replies: 42
Views: 35762

Re: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke

Hi Ben, Yes, I am aware (as you know) of your internal evidence. I even gave you at least one piece of it. You are supporting my contention that internal evidence is really all we have. The internal evidence supports what Irenaeus, Tertullian and Epiphanius thought about Marcion's gospel: Marcion tr...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:44 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke
Replies: 42
Views: 35762

Re: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke

Hi Ben. Exactly. None of those three has direct information about Marcion truncating Luke. The (proto-)orthodox accused Marcion of doing so, but (according to Tertullian) Marcionites leveled the reverse accusation at the (proto-)orthodox: to wit, that they had augmented the Marcionite gospel. Intern...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke
Replies: 42
Views: 35762

Re: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke

Hi Ben, What are you talking about? Do you have a patristic testimony in hand which is not a patristic rumor? None of them has direct knowledge of which gospel came first. I was not dealing with that when I wrote about the threesome. I brought them about the issue of Marcion truncating (& modifying)...
by Bernard Muller
Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:20 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke
Replies: 42
Views: 35762

Re: A Proposal that the Longer Ending of Mark is Dependent on the Gospel of Luke

Hi Ben, The trouble is that all of these suggestions is possible. We have no direct evidence for any of them (just external patristic rumors and internal directional indications), and the probabilities we are slicing are very fine. The writings of Irenaeus, Tertullian & Epiphanius about gMarcion do ...