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by John2
Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:06 pm
Forum: Jewish Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Turncoat?
Replies: 20
Views: 471

Was Josephus a Turncoat?

No way. I don't know if I've ever exactly thought of Josephus as a "turncoat," but I've always been aware that he is commonly viewed that way. But what makes his version of Judaism any less authentic than the Fourth Philosophy he abandoned? I think he had a better grasp of geopolitical rea...
by John2
Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:21 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

Was Josephus a Christian? My guess, probably not. But how genuine, either, was his Pharisee-belonging (in Vita) claim? I suggest that the possibility that he mentioned Christians, whatever he thought about them--he probably knew some by Antiquities-time--he did not not think it risky to mention the...
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:46 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

So Rabbi Yoḥanan knew the verse he applied to Vespasian was interpreted as messianic by other Jews, but that does not mean that he himself acknowledged Vespasian as the Messiah? I think he (and Josephus) did what they had to do, by tweaking verses they knew were "messianic" and applying t...
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:26 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

I think what the rabbis did was tone down the meaning of something they knew was being interpreted messianically by anti-Roman Jews ("mighty one"), in order to save Judaism in the face of reality. But "mighty one" still can have that sense, as the rabbis surely knew (as per Jer....
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:19 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

I think what the rabbis did was tone down the meaning of something they knew was being interpreted messianically by anti-Roman Jews ("mighty one"), in order to save Judaism in the face of reality. But "mighty one" still can have that sense, as the rabbis surely knew (as per Jer. ...
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:10 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

The only difference between the two interpretations is that pro-Roman Jews took Lebanon to mean the Temple and anti-Roman Jews took it to mean the Romans. Both understand אַדִּיר as meaning a king or Messiah and both interpretations were "in the air" at the same time, and if you wanted to ...
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

Right, but then Bauckham goes on to discuss 2 Baruch and summarizes it on pg. 200: 2 Baruch 36-40 demonstrates that the messianic interpretation of Isaiah 10:34 was not confined to the Qumran community, but must have been more widely known and accepted in the New Testament period. It doesn't matter ...
by John2
Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:00 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

This is interesting for two closely related reasons. First, like Josephus, Yoḥanan ben Zakkai predicts that Vespasian will become king (emperor). There is no suggestion that he acknowledged Vespasian as the Messiah. Second, he finds scriptural support for his claim in Isaiah 10.34, quoted as 'And t...
by John2
Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:32 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

Does Josephus say any more than that he foretold that Vespasian would become emperor (i.e., do we need a Messianic interpretation here) ? I still think so. All we can do is speculate, but I feel comfortable with the idea that the "governor of the habitable earth" predicted in the OT that ...
by John2
Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:39 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Was Josephus a Christian?
Replies: 107
Views: 1736

Re: Was Josephus a Christian?

How does that trump Josephus identifying Vespasian as Shiloh? It's incredibly you to suggest Ben over Josephus to understand Josephus. If it works for you, then have at it. Various ideas have been proposed (the Star prophecy is another) and I've thought various things over the years and like Dan. 9...