Search found 401 matches

by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

No problems Ben what i just don't understand is why a Jewish Christian writing isn't more important that's all it comes down to. i just don't get it

19 can be split in 2 parts. i feel the 2nd part has a 'looking back' kind of feel to it. it could be later...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:24 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and Marcion
Replies: 31
Views: 933

Re: Paul and Marcion

SA yes i think your onto something re: Samaritanism - is hard to research i want to get this book do you think its worth it? Early Christian Authors on Samaritans and Samaritanism https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dhDlzh--Q2AC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=%22gorthaeus%22+%22Goratheni%22&source=bl&ots=g1W0k...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:06 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

that was just another odes rant every now and again i do that :) well one dating criteria is from Lattke who is a fine scholar until he starts his dating https://www.academia.edu/7003191/Dating_the_Odes_of_Solomon his argument rests entirely on similarities to writings like Ignatius and parallels wi...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:14 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

Re: dating of the Odes they are a lot more uniform than a lot of other texts and seem internally consistent if there's any advantage in their uniformity or non-uniformity it could be useful but the whole text is considered less important than others for some unknown reason, maybe because it scares p...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:55 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Gnosticism Historicized: Historical Figures and Movements
Replies: 7
Views: 145

Re: Gnosticism Historicized: Historical Figures and Movements

It's great to have such a dubious and useful category such as Gnostics The earliest Gnostics don't seem very Gnostic The Simonians used the Old Testament to expound their doctrines according to Hippolytus and said nothing about a demiurge at all The Nicolaitans mentioned by Ignatius believe the same...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

Ode 19 itself, of course, has more in common with the so called "pocket gospel" in the Ascension of Isaiah than it does with the Protevangelium. Which came first, a midwife on hand who can help Salome testify to Mary's virginity, or the complete absence of a midwife to testify to the painlessness o...
by davidmartin
Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:33 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and Marcion
Replies: 31
Views: 933

Re: Paul and Marcion

thanks Ben that's strange it makes Masbotheans sound like a Jewish sub-group not a Christian heresy which Hegeseppius is supposed to be listing? The Simonians, Cleobians and Dositheans form a recognisable group of early 'Christians' all dated to about the same time and all connected with each other....
by davidmartin
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:44 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul and Marcion
Replies: 31
Views: 933

Re: Paul and Marcion

OK here's some guesswork on the Goratheni for what it's worth Gora seems to mean 'man' and/or 'great' in Aramaic Menander in Greek means strong man Since Hegeseppius says Menandrists spring from one of the earlier seven sects it could be it was from the Goratheni which might have meant 'great men' I...
by davidmartin
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

Ben let's slice it a different way. (In all probability you're right it's later than Luke i'm not gonna push that one too hard!) What's interesting is there was some part of the earlyish church engaging in all this Marian speculation Luke isn't an anomaly, nor was it the first and definitely not the...
by davidmartin
Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:31 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).
Replies: 29
Views: 597

Re: Matthew, Luke, & the Protevangelium of James (for David).

ok after reading this i would offer the following conclusions if you take the birth narratives in matthew and luke together with that prot. of james it seems likely there were writings covering this topic going back to the time when the gospels were still being composed. there probably were multiple...