Search found 1350 matches
- Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:07 am
- Forum: Academic Discussion
- Topic: γυμνὸς or γυμνοὶ in Clement's Letter to Theodore?
- Replies: 73
- Views: 2744
Re: γυμνὸς or γυμνοὶ in Clement's Letter to Theodore?
If you want to argue that it is, could you expand on what you wrote earlier? Sure, so I argue that there might be some connection between γυμνὸς γυμνῷ and this section of Second Apocalypse of James : ... For just as you are first having clothed yourself, you are also the first who will strip himsel...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:59 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
I don't think any of the evangelists that were later gathered into the four gospel canon meant for his work to be read alongside other gospels which had equal authority. I sometimes wonder about John vis-a-vis Mark, whether it was intended to be a John and Mark situation by the author of John. The ...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:14 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
I assume that Ken is saying that Luke interpreted Mark as an adoptionist text Yes, you're probably right. Sorry, I wrote a reply but it seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. I'm not arguing that Mark intended to imply that Jesus became the Son of God by adoption. I'm arguing that Matthew and L...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:39 pm
- Forum: Academic Discussion
- Topic: γυμνὸς or γυμνοὶ in Clement's Letter to Theodore?
- Replies: 73
- Views: 2744
Re: γυμνὸς or γυμνοὶ in Clement's Letter to Theodore?
The singular reading would suggest a one-on-one encounter of Jesus and the youth and that is, as far as I know, otherwise unknown in the ancient world and therefore striking. So the suggested one-on-one encounter of Jesus (presumably) and the youth (beloved) in the Second Apocalypse of James doesn'...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:29 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
- Replies: 37
- Views: 1084
Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
Mills has made it clear that the separationists adopted canonical Luke (and Mark). The docetists (and Marcion was one) seem to have adopted *Ev (or proto-John). The separationism seems to be a compromise between docetism and ebionism: the spiritual possessor comes from above but the human recipient...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:15 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
the fact that you can fit the verse about cirumcision in under that interpretation too does not really shift the needle in any significant way. I have introduced the circumcision in the equation to prove that, if a reaction by canonical Luke has to be, then it was not against the adoptionism in Mar...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:48 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
- Replies: 37
- Views: 1084
Re: Ian Mills's "external evidence" that Luke preceded Marcion
The fact that a lot of anti-demiurgists (=Christians who hated YHWH) accepted passively canonical Luke (where YHWH is apparently adored as supreme god and Jesus is recognized as a circumcised pious Jew) is evidence that they were eager to accept the growing new vulgata about the identity of Jesus (...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:36 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
I regard the conclusion favorably enough, Giuseppe, but "prove" and "must" are such strong words. Literary dependence arguments often prove to be difficult to find (sound ones anyway). Alternative interpretations must be considered. Finding things that can't be interpreted in mo...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:24 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
What I want to know is why we must accept that the birth narrative in Luke is a reaction to Marcion in the first place. because the presence of the circumcision story in canonical Luke makes it more probable that canonical Luke is a reaction against Marcion, and not a reaction against the adoptioni...
- Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:59 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Gospel priority
- Replies: 111
- Views: 3506
Re: Gospel priority
I don't understand your question. It is clear to me tha t if the birth story in Luke is recognized as anti-marcionite , then by logical extension also the birth story in Matthew is anti-marcionite, beyond the chronological order between canonical Luke and Matthew. Marcion is the only prominent figu...