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by Giuseppe
Mon May 25, 2015 1:18 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

The logic would be this: 1) if Jesus existed and was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet, the Earliest Written Gospel was an allegorical apology in order to cast in INVISIBLE triumph ON THIS HEART the apparent VISIBLE failure of Jesus (i.e. Mark). 2) But Mcn was the Earliest Written Gospel (that means: no ...
by Giuseppe
Sun May 24, 2015 9:56 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

As you well know, G, Marcion expected the plans of the creator god (the god of the Judeans) to happen exactly as predicted in Judean scriptures ok (I'm not denying that), but the plans of the creator god will be realized in a indefinite future (according to Marcion), NOT at the same time of the pre...
by Giuseppe
Sun May 24, 2015 9:59 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

I think it was surely possible to persuade a Jew that a messiah has come realizing all the Scriptures in invisible manner. While I think that it is IMPOSSIBLE to persuade a Jew in accepting a messiah that has come to disprove one by one all the Jewish Scriptures. If a historical Jesus existed and si...
by Giuseppe
Sat May 23, 2015 11:02 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

Marcion was even considered an ally with Jews by Tertullian. According to Tertullian, Marcion’s claim that Christ was not the Messiah the Jews expected according to their prophecies made them allies. This is curious, because in Toledoth Jeschu we see that Paul is described not as in a famous talmudi...
by Giuseppe
Sat May 23, 2015 9:57 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

I read this: Yᵊho•shuꞋa; י--ה [is] national-salvation or military-salvation; contracted to the cognomen יְשוּעַ (YᵊshuꞋa), from the unused root verb יַשַׁע ( to deliver nationally or militarily, to save nationally or militarily). This term is never used of the Hellenist (idolatrous) concept of "...
by Giuseppe
Sat May 23, 2015 7:07 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

If you think someone was making up the existence of this angel and his entire existence comes from a developed sense of Biblical allegory and symbolism, why invent a kind angel with a human name and a human name associated with violence? Unless it really did happen that way and we just have to deal...
by Giuseppe
Fri May 22, 2015 10:15 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

But if the community was Greek-speaking they may have been unaware of the names implication in Hebrew. Thus the outsiders were unaware and this is OK, while the insiders of marcionite elite knew the name and the contradiction by it raised for traditional Jewish messianism (the quasi impossible anti...
by Giuseppe
Fri May 22, 2015 12:29 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

yes, but my problem is : could a marcionite be really satisfied with the name ''YHWH saves'' for his object of cult?

I fear no because not all the marcionite people could see the irony that that apparent ''YHWH saves'' was not really the salvation of demiurg YHWH but of deus alienus.
by Giuseppe
Thu May 21, 2015 11:58 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

I should remember this article of G. Ory translated by Salm. http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2012/09/28/the-christ-and-jesus-ory/ I find there particularly interesting this claim: At the same time, Jesus is not called Yeoshua in the Talmud but Yesou (from the Greek Iesous). This shows that aramaic sp...
by Giuseppe
Thu May 21, 2015 10:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?
Replies: 42
Views: 37117

Re: Did marcionites accept a ''YHWH saves'' as their angel?

I read this, too, about the possible PAGAN origin of name ''Jesus'': The gospel story may be wholly explained as the writing down—about 50 years after Paul's death—of a "mystery play" reflecting the mystical function of "the Son": God being born in us—as in the Minoan mysteries. ...