Search found 3938 matches

by Bernard Muller
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:25 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to mlinssen, If I can be awfully rough, basically that is what I call "a layered tradition", with a source document, multiple intermediate documents and one final document - and the question then is, who authored it all, was there a committee, in a sense of some centralised action, top-dow...
by Bernard Muller
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:29 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to mlinssen, So, so you have different Q's for different parts of the NT? How many Q trajectories do you have then - and do you have pictures to go with all of them? I found it rather helpful This is what I wrote: I think some Q sayings were collected very early. That process kept going for decades ...
by Bernard Muller
Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:36 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to mlinssen, The graphic is not meant to be about the whole of Q, but just the few sayings deemed authentic (16 according to my count). Here is the introduction I gave for this graphic: Likely path for transmission of Jesus' deemed authentic sayings up to they were first recorded in the synoptic gos...
by Bernard Muller
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:09 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to rgprice, To me this just sounds like a fudge factor put in to account for things that violate the model. The strongest point you have is about the postulation of Aramaic translations, That would put you in the 8% according to "2) 'Ierousalem' in gMatthew" http://historical-jesus.info/q....
by Bernard Muller
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:47 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to rgprice, I don't like "Q is dependant on gMark". For me, I would say that some sayings in Q show their authors knew about gMark. I think some Q sayings were collected very early. That process kept going for decades (with many sayings/narratives being created) up to even after gMark was ...
by Bernard Muller
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:36 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to rgprice, The Occam's Razor is not a law. In order for anything to work, some complexity is required: try to invoke the Occam's Razor and remove parts from your car engine; see what happens. I am not sure your solution is simpler: someone would have combined gMark and other sayings/narratives in a...
by Bernard Muller
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:17 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to Ben, Yes, that represents the case I defended. However, there are many instances where "Luke" and "Matthew" copied from gMark without Q being the intermediary. Why: because what was copied from gMark was not added up with common elements showing in gLuke & gMatthew which a...
by Bernard Muller
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:15 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

My attempt to show my two sources theory (I don't expect any compliment on my arrows ;) )

Image

Cordially, Bernard
by Bernard Muller
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

to rgprice and Ben, Something has to be clarified here. Q is only "Q" if Q is nothing more than a sayings document, that existed before Mark. If you are talking about something that was derived from Mark, then that cannot be Q. That's your definition, not mine. If before Mark, common mater...
by Bernard Muller
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:45 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.
Replies: 83
Views: 23757

Re: Demonstrating Q (Quelle) was a document and "Luke" did not know gMatthew.

To Ben, The origin would not matter. All that would matter is that the saying held credibility in the Lucan community. It could be from Q, or from Matthew, or from anywhere. So you admit it could come from Q. And I showed in my OP that the Q source document existed and "Luke" did not know ...