Search found 1588 matches

by davidmartin
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:21 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?
Replies: 89
Views: 450243

Re: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?

hmm ok what i meant was the idea is Marcion gets to edit and publish his canon which then ends up being accepted into the orthodox canon if Paul's writings were revered and copied all over I don't see how this could happen but it could if his writings were not revered and copied all over and that do...
by davidmartin
Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:43 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?
Replies: 89
Views: 450243

Re: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?

As Iclapshaw and I were discussing on another thread, even in the Marcionite cannon, there is at least one pseudonymous letter II Thes., which itself warns against fake letters from Paul. At the very least, there were fake letters from Paul floating around when Marcion put his cannon together, and ...
by davidmartin
Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:35 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?
Replies: 89
Views: 450243

Re: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?

there was more than one false Paul, the question is was there ever a real one?
i used to go along with the traditional dating for at least the undisputed ones (minus interpolations) now i'm not so sure...
could there be a highly interpolated earlier layer perhaps that marcion reworked?
by davidmartin
Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:33 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?
Replies: 89
Views: 450243

Re: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?

What are the "gnostic" elements in gMark? that's an awkward question dbz, damn. there aren't really any in Mark or Luke or Matthew. except for where Satan pops up and granted any docetic readings (edit) I see the gnostic elements really in the epistles and John (redacted layer?) I'm resea...
by davidmartin
Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:08 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?
Replies: 89
Views: 450243

Re: Paul's letters all derived from Marcion?

another angle is the opposition to pharisees. in GD (Gnostic Dualism) they're working for the bad guy Thomas is the least GD form of this opposition. The pharisees are just blind dudes hiding the keys of gnosis, they're operating on the dude level only. It's less gnostic than the NT Strange bedfello...
by davidmartin
Sun Oct 29, 2023 1:57 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Postulating a gnostic origin of Jesus worship
Replies: 32
Views: 17375

Re: Postulating a gnostic origin of Jesus worship

I see the original pre-Christian "Gnosticism" as worshiping Sophia/Wisdom as second-god. The pre-Christian John-prime begins by saying there is a Mother who was with God and is God. N.B. per Philo, the mother of the "Son of God" was Sophia/Wisdom. hmm, as a cosmological thing or...
by davidmartin
Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:33 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dr. Sarah's Friendly Refutation of all Mythicism
Replies: 254
Views: 142213

Re: Dr. Sarah's Friendly Refutation of all Mythicism

a) Mark does seem to be strongly suggesting that Jesus died for some reason, even if he doesn’t say what that reason was. It’s not played as a martyr story, but more as if it’s part of some kind of Greater Plan. I’m open to suggestions about what that could be if not the atonement, but the only obv...
by davidmartin
Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:35 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Dr. Sarah's Friendly Refutation of all Mythicism
Replies: 254
Views: 142213

Re: Dr. Sarah's Friendly Refutation of all Mythicism

To clarify, I think it’s actually that the original group did stick to the Law and that Paul was the one who took the leap away from it. Thank-you Dr Sarah, what is your view of the Odes? I've been on here a while saying they pre-date the epistles and are the good stuff The idea the original group ...
by davidmartin
Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:05 am
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: Postulating a gnostic origin of Jesus worship
Replies: 32
Views: 17375

Re: Postulating a gnostic origin of Jesus worship

Paul and the church fathers make it clear they are a 'new covenant' separate from Judaism whether Paul considered himself a Jew or not Did some others not think this? Yes. I think Clement 2 or Barnabas mentions this Were these others proclaiming the earlier view? That's the question but it doesn't a...
by davidmartin
Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:49 pm
Forum: Christian Texts and History
Topic: The New Testament Peshitta and the Nomina Sacra
Replies: 20
Views: 4224

Re: The New Testament Peshitta and the Nomina Sacra

Magdalene reads "The Tower" in Syriac, not a place Magdala Obviously a nickname and it reads 'tower' in the Peshitta I seem to recall Jerome But if they recall how holy women attended our Lord and Savior and ministered to him of their own substance, and how the three Marys stood before the...