Search found 114 matches
- Tue Sep 12, 2023 6:27 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
- Replies: 40
- Views: 6542
Re: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
Yes. Tertullian repeatedly claims, explicitly and implicitly, to have Marcion's scriptures, including "Marcion's own gospel" / ipsum... Marcionis evangelium, AM 3.17.5) at his disposal. He wrote a massive commentary on both the Evangelium and Apostolos--the first commentaries on any Christ...
- Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:57 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
- Replies: 40
- Views: 6542
Re: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
I am not an expert on Marcion, so feel free to dismiss my current opinions. I did thank those who openly posted Marcion text proposals; no regrets in this case; that does not necessarily mean that I think the "reconstructions" are good, bad, or "close but no cigar." Why isn't Te...
- Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:49 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
- Replies: 40
- Views: 6542
Re: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
Patristic citations are just as important a data source as manuscript witnesses for text criticism. A close investigation of most NT manuscript variants and their patristic reception history shows that. [...] Data scientists routinely work on classification problems. How should data scientists clas...
- Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:38 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Marcionite readings of the Christ Hymn?
- Replies: 10
- Views: 8330
Re: Marcionite readings of the Christ Hymn?
In his published Concordance and the footnotes of his forthcoming edition, Vinzent works through the terms in Phil 2.9-11 and details their occurrences in pre-canonical and canonical texts. After summarizing the lexical data, he concludes, "Der Vergleich der Lexeme weist einige vorkanonisch bez...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:33 pm
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
- Replies: 30
- Views: 14788
Re: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
To summarize: 1. Tertullian clearly states that Marcion's Apostolos 2Thes lacked a phrase. 2. Tertullian quotes the canonical version of 2Thes to show the presence of said phrase, and what he perceives to be its necessity in context. 3. Irenaeus doesn't mention this verse in Marcion's text at all. 4...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:52 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
- Replies: 30
- Views: 14788
Re: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
So you see the way the original argument in Tertullian is "helped" by these pro-"Tertullian had the Marcionite canon." The original argument comes from Irenaeus. No one doubts that. But why would Tertullian need to borrow from Irenaeus if he had the canon? No one thinks. No one ...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:50 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: Paul's letters: early/Marcion's and later/canonical side-by-side
- Replies: 9
- Views: 779
Re: Paul's letters: early/Marcion's and later/canonical side-by-side
A rough expected distribution ratio for commonplace features in M.Paul to C.Paul should be around 1:4. One way to find potentially significant divergences is to identify frequency ratios outside of this norm. In the tables below, data point counts are given first, followed by a vertical line ... Co...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:47 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
- Replies: 30
- Views: 14788
Re: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
So to repeat. 1. Irenaeus is the one who "reports" about the "falsification of punctuation" by the Marcionites of the Gospel of Luke. How do we know the statement was made in relation to the Gospel of Luke rather than the Gospel of Marcion? (a) "wherefore also Marcion and h...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:39 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
- Replies: 40
- Views: 6542
Re: eruption in Jerusalem, not Antioch
Why don't you ask him "what is the probability that any one of these proposed reconstructions of the Marcionite gospel or the Marcionite Apostle is accurate?" If he gives you an answer approaching15 - 25% he's exaggerating. 50% or higher he's absolutely deluded. In the real world all of u...
- Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:32 am
- Forum: Christian Texts and History
- Topic: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
- Replies: 30
- Views: 14788
Re: The Marcionite "Mispunctuation" of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and Luke 20:34 and the BS that Tertullian Had Marcion's Gospel
So clearly Tertullian had a copy of Irenaeus's lost Against Marcion the book which he describes his methodology as "wherefore also Marcion and his followers have betaken themselves to mutilating the Scriptures, not acknowledging some books at all; and, curtailing the Gospel according to Luke a...