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by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 5:57 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

I disagree with so much of this. Suit yourself. I'm sure you have good reasons. :) Regarding Nazirites and the priesthood, Ashley writes: Several of the regulations governing the Nazirite are related to those concerning the priest or high priest. The priests are forbidden to drink wine while they a...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 4:06 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

At this point it becomes a very real question: what exactly would not be Jewish Christian for you? Even Paul was a Jewish Christian. Talk about his congregations and sure, maybe you are talking only about gentiles (as Hegesippus apparently did with respect to Corinth). But talk about Paul and you a...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 3:39 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

I'm still looking for any corroborating evidence that Nazrites were allowed to enter the holy place (meaning not the Holy of Holies), and Lee discusses this, though I can't see enough of it on Google books to know what he concludes (though from what I can see I gather he may think not): Might the Na...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 2:33 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

And Hegesippus' account of Domitian is in keeping with what Seutonius says about him in Domitian 12: Besides other taxes, that on the Jews was levied with the utmost rigour , and those were prosecuted who without publicly acknowledging that faith yet lived as Jews, as well as those who concealed the...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 2:11 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

We do not know that. It may just be Eusebius' selection bias. Lawlor (in Eusebiana) traces more in Eusebius back to Hegesippus than what Eusebius explicitly credits to him, including the banishment of John to Patmos and the Domitianic persecution of Christians. In the parts of Hegesippus that Euseb...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 1:41 pm
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

Ben wrote: No, but Jerome's extant works are voluminous. I think there are plenty of individual works by him which would betray nothing of his ethnic heritage. True, but Hegesippus wrote five books, which covered "many other matters" besides what Eusebius cited, and nothing in them disabus...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 11:16 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

Ben wrote: It is worth noting that Bauckham also explains the detail in Hegesippus about James alone being allowed into "the holies" as the result, not of historical tradition, but of exegetical deductions based upon Ezekiel 44 and Psalm 118.19. Many of the details in Hegesippus' account o...
by John2
Wed May 09, 2018 10:14 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

Ben wrote: I basically agree with Painter, at least so far, who relies on earlier critics: [box=]John Painter, Just James, page 120: Martin Dibelius and Heinrich Greeven assert that "the narrative of Hegesippus reveals a large number of typical legendary motifs (not to mention some problems wit...
by John2
Tue May 08, 2018 10:40 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

That is wacky! :D It is sooo obviously the kind of wish fulfillment one would expect in a hagiographic legend of this kind. Well, less wacky than going into the Holy of Holies, then. This is what I was saying. Hegesippus thought that James was so holy that an exception was carved out for him. But t...
by John2
Tue May 08, 2018 10:16 am
Forum: Academic Discussion
Topic: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.
Replies: 140
Views: 121066

Re: Papias and the disciples of the Lord.

Excellent responses, Ben. I will take everything into consideration, but I only have time to respond to one part at the moment. But what else on that list would give him priestly privilege? I am merely taking your insight to its logical conclusion: not one thing on that list about James ought to con...