Who's who on BC&H Forum?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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John T
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Who's who on BC&H Forum?

Post by John T » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am

:idea:
Perhaps, it would be easier to understand/relate to others on this forum if we knew their basic point of view regarding the origins of Christianity.

Please share your view regarding the historicity of Jesus and the origin of Christianity. I will summarize your answer on the list below.
However, if I get it wrong please let me know and I will correct it.
*************************************

Do you believe there was a historical Jesus and what religion/sect did Christianity derive from?

1. Jesus was real and Christianity derived from Enochic Judaism a.k.a. the Essene group....John T

2. Jesus is a myth and Christianity derived from Gnosticism....Gnostic Bishop

3. Jesus was real and Christianity derived from the Pharisees...iskander
Last edited by John T on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 8 times in total.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Who is who on the forum

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:11 am

John T wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am
:idea: Perhaps it would be easier to understand people on this forum if we had a list that states their current understanding of the origins of Christianity.

Do you believe there was a historical Jesus and what religion did Christianity derive from?

1. Jesus was real and Christianity derived from Enochic Judaism a.k.a. the Essene group....John T
I am Gnostic Christian and think Christianity came out of Chrestianity, which then changed our name to Gnostic Christians after much of our literature was plagiarized by Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... At-PAkgqls

Christianity has tried and failed to split off from the Jewish religion but they cannot as they have usurped their God and they come with their God.

Christians, if honest, would call themselves Jewish wanabes.

The Christian religion is better labelled the Jewish religion --- version 3.

Regards
DL

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John T
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Re: Who is who on the forum

Post by John T » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:11 am
John T wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am
Do you believe there was a historical Jesus and what religion did Christianity derive from?
I am Gnostic Christian and think Christianity came out of Chrestianity, which then changed our name to Gnostic Christians after much of our literature was plagiarized by Christianity.

Do you think Jesus was a real person, angel, alien, or just a myth?
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

iskander
Posts: 2013
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Who is who on the forum

Post by iskander » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:14 am

John T wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am
:idea: Perhaps it would be easier to understand people on this forum if we had a list that states their current understanding of the origins of Christianity.

Do you believe there was a historical Jesus and what religion did Christianity derive from?

1. Jesus was real and Christianity derived from Enochic Judaism a.k.a. the Essene group....John T

Jesus was a Jewish man who opposed the innovations of the Pharisees during the Second Temple in Judea and was convicted by the Sanhedrin for leading the community astray .

Jesus is simply saying not to observe the traditions of the Pharisees

Post by iskander » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:31 pm
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3558&start=20

John2 wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:04 pm
I took a look at Mark 7 and this is how it looks to me.

First, let's consider the context. Right before 7:14-23, Jesus castigates the Pharisees in 7:5-13 for letting go of "the commands of God and holding on to human traditions":

So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

So why would Jesus then go on to "nullify the word of God" himself in 7:14-23? But I see that Jesus doesn't say anything about eating unclean food here. It is Mark's interpretation of what Jesus is saying:

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”



I think the last section explains the first one. In other words, I think he's saying metaphorically that you can simply crap out the traditions of the Pharisees and not be defiled by them since "their teachings are merely human rules." This would be in keeping with 7:1-4:

The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)

So in my view, Jesus is simply saying not to observe the traditions of the Pharisees. To say that he is "setting aside the commands of God" concerning clean and unclean food (like Mark thinks) would make Jesus a hypocrite too.

John2 wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:04 pm
Jesus is simply saying not to observe the traditions of the Pharisees





Yes , I have read Boyarin's , The Jewish Gospels, again. He says that Jesus in Mark 7 was only opposing an innovation of the Pharisees which modified the Torah .


To call food kosher refers to its permissibility for eating by Jews as defined in the Torah , these laws are observed to the letter by pious Jews even today, These dietary laws , kashrut , was not the modification Jesus was opposing in Mark 7.

The innovation of the Pharisees that Jesus found unacceptable was the set of rules that define when any food -kosher or not--is pure or impure , depending on how that food was handled .

Boyarin writes that both Mark and Jesus were Jewish and knew they were separating different sets of Hebrew words , muttar and tahor.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Who is who on the forum

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:54 am

John T wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:11 am
John T wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am
Do you believe there was a historical Jesus and what religion did Christianity derive from?
I am Gnostic Christian and think Christianity came out of Chrestianity, which then changed our name to Gnostic Christians after much of our literature was plagiarized by Christianity.

Do you think Jesus was a real person, angel, alien, or just a myth?
Just a myth of an archetypal good man, just as the Chrestians did.

Here is a slightly longer explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

We modern Gnostic Christians see Jesus more as an Eastern mystic as he, like Karaite Jews puts man above
god where we belong, given that we have created all of them.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL

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