Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves God

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John T
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Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves God

Post by John T »

For those who want a glimpse of the thinking process of Richard Carrier, I recommend you watch the following link:

http://youtu.be/79UAYyMYk7I

Carrier gives about a 40 minute lecture on; "How Science & History Disproves all Goddy Religions."

During the lecture (atheist sermon) Carrier makes many outlandishness and foolish claims against the Bible that not only shows his lack of understanding of scriptures but his lack of understanding of science as well.

Carrier claims Jesus was not God because in Mark 7:1-15, he should have warned people about germs and required his disciples to wash their hands after wiping their butt before eating (I kid you not). When in fact Jesus was talking about not having to obey added rituals given by the Rabbis that God did not command in the Torah. The lack of proper ritual hand-washing in Mark 7 had nothing to do about the ignorance/knowledge of germs.

Carrier also claims God has never communicated any essential moral knowledge in the Bible. Apparently Carrier never read the about the 10 commandments in the book of Exodus.

Carrier's lack of basic science is also bizarre.

Carrier claims that 99% of the physical matter in the universe is stars and black holes. However, astrophysicists will tell you the total mass–energy of the known universe contains only about 5% of ordinary matter (stars, planets, dust) The other 95% is unknown and is believed to consist of dark matter and dark energy. Carrier uses his bogus 99% number to claim it is mathematically impossible for the universe to have been created by an intelligent being.

Carrier does not believe that God can resurrect the dead but that in about 50 years, (perhaps less) scientists will have invented; quantum teleportation which is the scientific method to capture the thoughts of the mind and then insert/graft it into new test-tube human bodies.

I could give you many other examples but you won't believe them unless you see the actual words coming out of Carrier's mouth. Perhaps most telling about the bizarre thinking possess of Carrier was a question from the audience. Carrier was asked how does he make sense of why so many people still believe in God given Carrier's evidence that there isn't a God? Carrier's answer was ironic, he said it is due to cognitive (dissonance) bias. That is to say people can be so closed-minded in wanting to believe want they want to believe that they just can't let facts/truth get in the way of what they want to believe.

On that point, Carrier actually got one thing right.

Yet, for some reason atheist groups continue to worship Carrier as their savior from God.

What passes for enlightenment these days is just amazing.

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
outhouse
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by outhouse »

John T wrote: Carrier also claims God has never communicated any essential moral knowledge in the Bible.
Well that is a fact isn't it?

Only men wrote the books, this is factual.

Apparently Carrier never read the about the 10 commandments in the book of Exodus.
The 10 commandments is juts a collection of moral laws well known in both Mesopotamia and Egypt. They are not original to the Israelite cultures.



Do you know any credible history at all from this period?
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John T
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by John T »

outhouse wrote:
John T wrote: Carrier also claims God has never communicated any essential moral knowledge in the Bible.
Well that is a fact isn't it?

Only men wrote the books, this is factual.

Apparently Carrier never read the about the 10 commandments in the book of Exodus.
The 10 commandments is juts a collection of moral laws well known in both Mesopotamia and Egypt. They are not original to the Israelite cultures.



Do you know any credible history at all from this period?
The 10 commandments were engraved in stone, reportedly written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18. That is not so say you have to believe it but it is definitely in the Bible.

So, it seems your question should be redirected back at you: "Do you (outhouse) not know any credible history from this period?" Perhaps you (Carrier as well) should actually read the book of Exodus to see it for yourself.

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
Diogenes the Cynic
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by Diogenes the Cynic »

Carrier also claims God has never communicated any essential moral knowledge in the Bible. Apparently Carrier never read the about the 10 commandments in the book of Exodus.
What is particularly moral about the Ten Commandments? Only three or four of them convey any real moral message and even those were nothing that didn't already exist before the Pentateuch was written.
Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic on Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Diogenes the Cynic
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by Diogenes the Cynic »

John T wrote:The 10 commandments were engraved in stone, reportedly written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18. That is not so say you have to believe it but it is definitely in the Bible.

So, it seems your question should be redirected back at you: "Do you (outhouse) not know any credible history from this period?" Perhaps you (Carrier as well) should actually read the book of Exodus to see it for yourself.
The book of Exodus is not history. There was no historical Sinai event, There were no tablets written by God. There wasn't even a Moses.

Incidentally, Exodus says only that the first set of ten commandments was written by "the finger of God." Those were the ones that Moses smashed. God then dictated a new set (of totally different commandments) which Moses carved himself.
outhouse
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by outhouse »

John T wrote:The 10 commandments were engraved in stone, reportedly written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18.

Sincerely,
John T

Apologetic nonsense. That has no historical basis.



Do you know any credible history at all from this period?
outhouse
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by outhouse »

Diogenes the Cynic wrote: Incidentally, Exodus says only that the first set of ten commandments was written by "the finger of God." Those were the ones that Moses smashed. God then dictated a new set (of totally different commandments) which Moses carved himself.

Nothing worse then apologetic dribble that is in error under its own kind :facepalm:


Good catch.
Sheshbazzar
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by Sheshbazzar »

Diogenes the Cynic wrote: Incidentally, Exodus says only that the first set of ten commandments was written by "the finger of God." Those were the ones that Moses smashed. God then dictated a new set (of totally different commandments) which Moses carved himself.
The Bible is bit wonky regarding the content of 10 Commandments, with Exodus 20 giving one set, Deuteronomy 5 another,
and Ex 34, The one and only Official ONE;
1. And YHWH said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which you broke.

But He didn't, evidently by verse 27 YHWH had already forgotten both what had been written on those 'first set of tables',
as well as that that HE just stated that HE was also going to do the writing on these, the second set of tablets of stone;
27. And YHWH said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28. And he was there with YHWH forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he [Moses] wrote upon the tables the words of The Covenant, 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS'.
And what a screwy one this final draft of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS' is, dropping some of the well known earlier simple ethical commandments, and substituting 'stuff' like;
18. The Feast of Unleavened Bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt
became the 4th COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS' :roll:
19. All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male
20. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
became The 5th COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS' :roll:
22. And thou shalt observe The Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year's end.
23. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before YHWH Elohim, the Elohi of Israel.
became the 7th COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS'. :roll:
Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left unto the morning.
became the 8th COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS'. :roll:
26. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of YHWH thy El.
became the 9th COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS'. :roll:
Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
became the 10th and last COMMANDMENT of 'THE TEN COMMANDMENTS'. :roll:

These are six of the final and authoritative 'TEN COMMANDMENTS' as (allegedly) engraved upon two tablets of stone by MOSES and placed within the Ark of The Covenant (1Kings 8:9, 2Chro 5:10)

Yes, Moses did, or is claimed to have recited a different version in Deuteronomy 5 (apparently even Moses himself could not even remember what COMMANDMENTS he had engraved on the stone tablets that were in the Ark. )

Lucky for us readers living at this late date, it was recorded in the text in case some forgot. ;) Its a joke fellows.

The authoritative and final draft of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and the one that was (allegedly) engraved upon stone and placed within The Ark of The Covenant is the version appearing in Exodus 34.

Don't allow mealy mouth religionists to feed you any other.
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John T
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by John T »

outhouse wrote:
Diogenes the Cynic wrote: Incidentally, Exodus says only that the first set of ten commandments was written by "the finger of God." Those were the ones that Moses smashed. God then dictated a new set (of totally different commandments) which Moses carved himself.

Nothing worse then apologetic dribble that is in error under its own kind :facepalm:


Good catch.
Sadly, you and Diogenes have both missed the point. The point is not if you believe in the Bible or how/when it came about but that Carrier was unaware of a basic, universally well-known story from the Bible that even most atheists have heard before. :facepalm:

Sincerely,

John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
Diogenes the Cynic
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Re: Richard Carrier lectures science and history disproves G

Post by Diogenes the Cynic »

The story is not history, so it's irrelevant. Carrier said that God has never communicated any moral teachings to humans. That is true as far as we know. The Book of Exodus was written by humans. You might as well cite the movie, Predator, as evidence that aliens have visited Earth.
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