Gnostic Bishop wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:38 am
Hi new guy.
So many assumptions.
What do you mean when you say we inherit sin?
Hello Gnostic Bishop,
Nice to be here. What assumptions have I made?
I didn't say 'we' inherit sin. I said Jesus did, or saw himself as having done so.
Regarding your two Old Testament quotes (you give Ezekial 18:20 twice).
Deutronomy 24:16 is concerning human laws - it is not lawful for a man to be executed by other men for the sins of another.
But God can judge otherwise;
Exodus 20:5-6 - “I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 34:6-7 - The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”
Jeremiah 32:17-18 ‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you. You show steadfast love to thousands, but you repay the guilt of fathers to their children after them"
These passages are saying that when it comes to God's commandments, those who follow them will be loved, but those who don't will be punished as will their descendants.
So what about Ezekial 18:20?
The whole of Ezekial chapter 18 is referring specifically to the House of Israel, from the first verses
"The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying, 'What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?'" (18:1-2),
to the last
"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. (18:30-32)
The passage in Ezekial is thus a conditional promise from God to the House of Israel, - if you promise to follow my laws, I will judge you by your individual merits. Its a bargaining chip. The previous passages in Jeremiah and Exodus are being modified. As God said to Isaiah “I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake," (Isaiah 43:25). God acts in his own interests.
But all these passages have nothing to do with inheriting sin. They are about inheriting
guilt - that is, being held accountable for the judgement passed on others. Someone is guilty because they sinned, and that guilty judgement is passed down the generations. The act that the father committed is nowhere said to have been repeated in the children, only the consequences of it.
Inheriting
sin, on the other hand, is about the innate propensity of men to do evil;
Genesis 8:21 And the Lord said in his heart, "I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth."
Ecclesiastes 9:3 Yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Jeremiah 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Proverbs 22:15 15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Thus the argument is that men are born to sin and thus suffer and die, but God gave them Laws and if they follow them they will have salvation. What we are born with, we inherit from our parents. If Jesus descended from Adam, then he inherited this propensity to sin from Adam.