Is God competent or incompetent?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:19 pm

Is God competent or incompetent?

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.

God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?

I give God a fail on competence for the following reasons.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

iskander
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:23 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:19 pm
Is God competent or incompetent?

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.

God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?

I give God a fail on competence for the following reasons.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL
Hail Gnostic Bishop !

In a sermon preached in 1557 Luther said : “The Word was given in many ways from the beginning. We must not only ask whether it is God’s Word, whether God spoke it, but much more, to whom He spoke it, whether it applies to you or to another.” “The false prophets rush in and say, ‘Dear people, this is God’s Word.’ It is true, and we cannot deny it; but we are not the people to whom He speaks” (Er1. Ed., 33, 16.)

"We are not the people to whom He speaks"

PS The Garden of Eden only produced fruit and greens.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pm

I do not see an answer to my question, but thanks for the reply.

Regards
DL

iskander
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:44 pm
I do not see an answer to my question, but thanks for the reply.

Regards
DL
Is God competent or incompetent?--competent

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.--- no, God created the universe and gave us intelligence

God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?---no, sin is only one activity , there are many other activities

God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.--No , creating a haven is a mighty deed .

God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail-- There is no Original Sin in the Orthodox Church for example. It was Augustine of Hippo who in the 5th century AD invented this non-biblical sin.

God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail--no, he punished the bad with another mighty deed

God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.-- no he permitted humanity to undo one particular mistake.

God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.-- no, there is no evidence in the bible for that belief.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.-- no, Jesus modified our understanding of God.

Do you agree? some gods are better than others.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:40 am

iskander wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Is God competent or incompetent?--competent

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.--- no, God created the universe and gave us intelligence
But not intelligent enough to find ways not to war or not sin. Fail.
God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?---no, sin is only one activity , there are many other activities
True, but we are still unable to not sin. Fail.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.--No , creating a haven is a mighty deed .
Mighty? Sure, but with evil in it that he later had to deal with. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail-- There is no Original Sin in the Orthodox Church for example. It was Augustine of Hippo who in the 5th century AD invented this non-biblical sin.
It was still accepted as fact and baptism as the purifier or remedy to God's incompetence and failure.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail--no, he punished the bad with another mighty deed
Genocide is that for sure but killing instead of curing when God could have done either shows him taking the satanic low moral ground instead of the moral high ground. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.-- no he permitted humanity to undo one particular mistake.
Yes. God's, whom you say did not make mistakes. Fail.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.-- no, there is no evidence in the bible for that belief.
I can likely partially agree with you here but 70 odd % of Christians believe in a Satan and hell so ----- Fail.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.-- no, Jesus modified our understanding of God.

Do you agree? some gods are better than others.
Jesus, a good man, certainly did that by showing what a good God would do which is not what Yahweh did.

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:50 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:40 am
iskander wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Is God competent or incompetent?--competent

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.--- no, God created the universe and gave us intelligence
But not intelligent enough to find ways not to war or not sin. Fail.
God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?---no, sin is only one activity , there are many other activities
True, but we are still unable to not sin. Fail.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.--No , creating a haven is a mighty deed .
Mighty? Sure, but with evil in it that he later had to deal with. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail-- There is no Original Sin in the Orthodox Church for example. It was Augustine of Hippo who in the 5th century AD invented this non-biblical sin.
It was still accepted as fact and baptism as the purifier or remedy to God's incompetence and failure.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail--no, he punished the bad with another mighty deed
Genocide is that for sure but killing instead of curing when God could have done either shows him taking the satanic low moral ground instead of the moral high ground. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.-- no he permitted humanity to undo one particular mistake.
Yes. God's, whom you say did not make mistakes. Fail.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.-- no, there is no evidence in the bible for that belief.
I can likely partially agree with you here but 70 odd % of Christians believe in a Satan and hell so ----- Fail.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.-- no, Jesus modified our understanding of God.

Do you agree? some gods are better than others.
Jesus, a good man, certainly did that by showing what a good God would do which is not what Yahweh did.

Regards
DL
:cheers:

It is difficult for me to answer your questions because I do not believe there is one God speaking with one voice and saying always the same unchanging message , which originally was only known to one person , such as a prophet , or a pope, or a biblical scholar ...

For me there are as many Gods as there are people who believe in God-- or not one single God at all for the person who ignores its existence in his life.

Some Gods are easier to live with than others and Martin Luther sermon is very interesting because it warns against thoughtless faith.

Jesus was a great thinker of religion as it was Luther, but the Holy Fathers and Apostolic commentators of the work of Jesus are often greedy cruel bastards.

I know people fear Satan , I am sorry anyone should fear death beyond the absence of life.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:43 pm

iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:50 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:40 am
iskander wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Is God competent or incompetent?--competent

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.--- no, God created the universe and gave us intelligence
But not intelligent enough to find ways not to war or not sin. Fail.
God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?---no, sin is only one activity , there are many other activities
True, but we are still unable to not sin. Fail.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.--No , creating a haven is a mighty deed .
Mighty? Sure, but with evil in it that he later had to deal with. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail-- There is no Original Sin in the Orthodox Church for example. It was Augustine of Hippo who in the 5th century AD invented this non-biblical sin.
It was still accepted as fact and baptism as the purifier or remedy to God's incompetence and failure.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail--no, he punished the bad with another mighty deed
Genocide is that for sure but killing instead of curing when God could have done either shows him taking the satanic low moral ground instead of the moral high ground. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.-- no he permitted humanity to undo one particular mistake.
Yes. God's, whom you say did not make mistakes. Fail.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.-- no, there is no evidence in the bible for that belief.
I can likely partially agree with you here but 70 odd % of Christians believe in a Satan and hell so ----- Fail.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.-- no, Jesus modified our understanding of God.

Do you agree? some gods are better than others.
Jesus, a good man, certainly did that by showing what a good God would do which is not what Yahweh did.

Regards
DL
:cheers:

It is difficult for me to answer your questions because I do not believe there is one God speaking with one voice and saying always the same unchanging message , which originally was only known to one person , such as a prophet , or a pope, or a biblical scholar ...

For me there are as many Gods as there are people who believe in God-- or not one single God at all for the person who ignores its existence in his life.

Some Gods are easier to live with than others and Martin Luther sermon is very interesting because it warns against thoughtless faith.

Jesus was a great thinker of religion as it was Luther, but the Holy Fathers and Apostolic commentators of the work of Jesus are often greedy cruel bastards.

I know people fear Satan , I am sorry anyone should fear death beyond the absence of life.
Thanks for this buddy.

Marten Luther is a strange case to me. He says some good Gnostic Christian things yet believe in the supernatural which Gnostic Christians do not believe in.

Your sermon of his may preach against thoughtless faith, but he also preaches for thoughtless faith.

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:43 pm
iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:50 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:40 am
iskander wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm
Is God competent or incompetent?--competent

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.--- no, God created the universe and gave us intelligence
But not intelligent enough to find ways not to war or not sin. Fail.
God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?---no, sin is only one activity , there are many other activities
True, but we are still unable to not sin. Fail.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.--No , creating a haven is a mighty deed .
Mighty? Sure, but with evil in it that he later had to deal with. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail-- There is no Original Sin in the Orthodox Church for example. It was Augustine of Hippo who in the 5th century AD invented this non-biblical sin.
It was still accepted as fact and baptism as the purifier or remedy to God's incompetence and failure.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail--no, he punished the bad with another mighty deed
Genocide is that for sure but killing instead of curing when God could have done either shows him taking the satanic low moral ground instead of the moral high ground. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.-- no he permitted humanity to undo one particular mistake.
Yes. God's, whom you say did not make mistakes. Fail.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.-- no, there is no evidence in the bible for that belief.
I can likely partially agree with you here but 70 odd % of Christians believe in a Satan and hell so ----- Fail.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.-- no, Jesus modified our understanding of God.

Do you agree? some gods are better than others.
Jesus, a good man, certainly did that by showing what a good God would do which is not what Yahweh did.

Regards
DL
:cheers:

It is difficult for me to answer your questions because I do not believe there is one God speaking with one voice and saying always the same unchanging message , which originally was only known to one person , such as a prophet , or a pope, or a biblical scholar ...

For me there are as many Gods as there are people who believe in God-- or not one single God at all for the person who ignores its existence in his life.

Some Gods are easier to live with than others and Martin Luther sermon is very interesting because it warns against thoughtless faith.

Jesus was a great thinker of religion as it was Luther, but the Holy Fathers and Apostolic commentators of the work of Jesus are often greedy cruel bastards.

I know people fear Satan , I am sorry anyone should fear death beyond the absence of life.
Thanks for this buddy.

Marten Luther is a strange case to me. He says some good Gnostic Christian things yet believe in the supernatural which Gnostic Christians do not believe in.

Your sermon of his may preach against thoughtless faith, but he also preaches for thoughtless faith.

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04

Regards
DL
Every religion I know claims revelation is the only way to know God. Luther uses unconventional language to say nothing controversial in the realm of religion. God , any God , requires faith but Jesus and Luther are a vast improvement over Judaism and over Catholicism as these two religions existed in their time.


The CCC for example says,
"3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.6"

From generation to generation , by professing the faith.. It is impossible to have a religion without faith in a God and without faith in life after death.

I compare Luther to other religious leaders, his rough words hide a liberating message. Luther is the most rational system of religion I know of : trust in the mercy of god and let your reason be your guide in the world of mortals.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm

iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 pm

I compare Luther to other religious leaders, his rough words hide a liberating message. Luther is the most rational system of religion I know of : trust in the mercy of god and let your reason be your guide in the world of mortals.
Martin Luther may not have rejected the supernatural so I do not see him as the rational thinker you see in him.

Faith, belief without proof or evidence, is not required for intelligent and moral religions. Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

Many of the religious Protestant sects that Luther unleashed are homophobic and misogynist literalist cults and follow those and more immoral tenets.

They may have some rationality in them but certainly not morality.

Regards
DL

iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 pm

I compare Luther to other religious leaders, his rough words hide a liberating message. Luther is the most rational system of religion I know of : trust in the mercy of god and let your reason be your guide in the world of mortals.
Martin Luther may not have rejected the supernatural so I do not see him as the rational thinker you see in him.

Faith, belief without proof or evidence, is not required for intelligent and moral religions. Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

Many of the religious Protestant sects that Luther unleashed are homophobic and misogynist literalist cults and follow those and more immoral tenets.

They may have some rationality in them but certainly not morality.

Regards
DL
People have their own assessment of other religions and I am happy to let the matter rest there.


Every religion believes in the supernatural. Having a religion and relating this faith to a rational way of life can be far more intelligent and moral than not having any belief in a God.

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