Is God competent or incompetent?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Jax
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Jax » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:10 pm

iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:42 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 pm

I compare Luther to other religious leaders, his rough words hide a liberating message. Luther is the most rational system of religion I know of : trust in the mercy of god and let your reason be your guide in the world of mortals.
Martin Luther may not have rejected the supernatural so I do not see him as the rational thinker you see in him.

Faith, belief without proof or evidence, is not required for intelligent and moral religions. Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

Many of the religious Protestant sects that Luther unleashed are homophobic and misogynist literalist cults and follow those and more immoral tenets.

They may have some rationality in them but certainly not morality.

Regards
DL
People have their own assessment of other religions and I am happy to let the matter rest there.


Every religion believes in the supernatural. Having a religion and relating this faith to a rational way of life can be far more intelligent and moral than not having any belief in a God.
Do you then consider yourself more moral and intelligent than people who don't believe in a supernatural God?

iskander
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:24 pm

It means that believing in some God does not tell much about the personal qualities of a person.

It also means that not believing in any God does not tell much about the personal qualities of a person.

A religious person can be super . A non religious person can be super., etc.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:16 am

iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:42 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
iskander wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:09 pm

I compare Luther to other religious leaders, his rough words hide a liberating message. Luther is the most rational system of religion I know of : trust in the mercy of god and let your reason be your guide in the world of mortals.
Martin Luther may not have rejected the supernatural so I do not see him as the rational thinker you see in him.

Faith, belief without proof or evidence, is not required for intelligent and moral religions. Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

Many of the religious Protestant sects that Luther unleashed are homophobic and misogynist literalist cults and follow those and more immoral tenets.

They may have some rationality in them but certainly not morality.

Regards
DL
People have their own assessment of other religions and I am happy to let the matter rest there.


Every religion believes in the supernatural.
I gave you three examples above.

What supernatural aspects do you see in Buddhism when they do not have a God?

What of my own Gnostic Christianity?
What supernatural being do I believe in when I say I do not hold any supernatural beliefs?
Having a religion and relating this faith to a rational way of life can be far more intelligent and moral than not having any belief in a God.
I agree and that is what Gnostic Christianity is all about. Man above God is basically our motto. And why Not, as we create them all and should not let ourselves be subsumed by our own creations.

Regards
DL

iskander
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:05 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:16 am
I gave you three examples above
What supernatural aspects do you see in Buddhism when they do not have a God?.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2979

Re: Self in Theravada
Post by iskander » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:37 am
Cops and robbers : the Self and the no Self

Ven. Sudinna, the story goes, had strong faith in the Buddha and had ordained after receiving his parents’ grudging consent. He was their only child and, though married, was childless. His parents, fearing that the government would confiscate their property at their death if it had no heir, devised various schemes to lure Ven. Sudinna back to the lay life, but to no avail.

Finally, his mother realized that he was firm in his intention to stay a bhikkhu and so asked him at least to have intercourse with his former wife so that their property would have an heir. Ven. Sudinna consented, took his wife into the forest, and had intercourse three times.


Immediately he felt remorse and eventually confessed his deed to his fellow bhikkhus. Word reached the Buddha, who called a meeting of the Community,questioned Ven. Sudinna, and gave him a rebuke.


The Buddha's rebuke :
" Haven’t I in many ways advocated abandoning sensual pleasures, comprehending sensual perceptions, subduing sensual thirst, destroying sensual thoughts, calming sensual fevers?

Worthless man, it would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake than into a woman’s vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a black viper than into a woman’s vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into a pit of burning embers, blazing and glowing, than into a woman’s vagina.

Why is that? For that reason you would undergo death or deathlike suffering, but you would not on that account, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. But for this reason you would, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell….

“‘Worthless man, this neither inspires faith in the faithless nor increases the faithful. Rather, it inspires lack of faith in the faithless and wavering in some of the faithful.’”

The Buddhist Monastic Code I. pg.13ff

iskander
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:41 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=karai ... 24&bih=654
Karaite Jews

They believe in the Written Torah
PS John 2 is the man to answer questions about Karaite Judaism

iskander
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by iskander » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:16 pm

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:05 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:16 am
I gave you three examples above
What supernatural aspects do you see in Buddhism when they do not have a God?.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2979

Re: Self in Theravada
Post by iskander » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:37 am
Cops and robbers : the Self and the no Self

Ven. Sudinna, the story goes, had strong faith in the Buddha and had ordained after receiving his parents’ grudging consent. He was their only child and, though married, was childless. His parents, fearing that the government would confiscate their property at their death if it had no heir, devised various schemes to lure Ven. Sudinna back to the lay life, but to no avail.

Finally, his mother realized that he was firm in his intention to stay a bhikkhu and so asked him at least to have intercourse with his former wife so that their property would have an heir. Ven. Sudinna consented, took his wife into the forest, and had intercourse three times.


Immediately he felt remorse and eventually confessed his deed to his fellow bhikkhus. Word reached the Buddha, who called a meeting of the Community,questioned Ven. Sudinna, and gave him a rebuke.


The Buddha's rebuke :
" Haven’t I in many ways advocated abandoning sensual pleasures, comprehending sensual perceptions, subduing sensual thirst, destroying sensual thoughts, calming sensual fevers?

Worthless man, it would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake than into a woman’s vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a black viper than into a woman’s vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into a pit of burning embers, blazing and glowing, than into a woman’s vagina.

Why is that? For that reason you would undergo death or deathlike suffering, but you would not on that account, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. But for this reason you would, at the break-up of the body, after death, fall into a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell….

“‘Worthless man, this neither inspires faith in the faithless nor increases the faithful. Rather, it inspires lack of faith in the faithless and wavering in some of the faithful.’”

The Buddhist Monastic Code I. pg.13ff
There are a number of Buddhist cults and my daughter in law is in one where there is no supernatural content. You will note that nowhere in what you put is a God or Satan mentioned or named so FMPOV, I read the planes as mental states.

Some do talk of re-incarnation but I do not think it is quite the same one as we might think of because where we only have a bout 4 definitions for consciousness, the Easter traditions have about 8.

I can give you 1/2 a point for this because you have not shown the manes of the supernatural entities you think they have.

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:27 pm

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:41 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=karai ... 24&bih=654
Karaite Jews

They believe in the Written Torah
PS John 2 is the man to answer questions about Karaite Judaism
They do indeed believe in the written Torah but the oral Torah takes precedence and that is why they put man above God.

Start this up at about the 15 min. mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddCNY6U77Y

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm

iskander wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:47 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:31 pm
Gnostic Christians like me, Karaite Jews and Buddhists, for example, do not have supernatural and mind dulling beliefs.

What is a Gnostic Christian ?
PS You are the best man to answer.
You are correct.

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.

We tend to view the following as what Jesus taught as opposed to what the church teaches.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This link expand on this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

Joseph D. L.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:02 pm

In a nutshell, a Gnostic Christian is a free thinker who is an esoteric ecumenist and naturalist and defines the word God the way the ancients did, as the best rules and laws they could come up with in man, as nothing could be known of the supernatural.
That's not true. That's New Age pig swill.

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