question about evil

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
Aspen
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Re: question about evil

Post by Aspen » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:08 am

I reject Gnosticism, as did the early Christian Church, so I am not sure we have much more to discuss

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:37 am

Aspen wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:08 am
I reject Gnosticism, as did the early Christian Church, so I am not sure we have much more to discuss
Not if you favor Yahweh, a genocidal son murdering prick of a god, and like Christians, can see that prick as somehow good.

If you are that far lost to immoral thinking, I doubt that anyone can put moral sense into you. :confusedsmiley: :confusedsmiley:

Regards
DL

Aspen
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Re: question about evil

Post by Aspen » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am

Your false dualism is old news and has no place within Christianity

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:17 am

Aspen wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am
Your false dualism is old news and has no place within Christianity
Neither has Yahweh.

Nice deflection from moral thinking.

Regards
DL

Aspen
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Re: question about evil

Post by Aspen » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:28 am

What is more interesting to me is your need to divide God into Good and Bad entities in order to live with the tribal morality placed onto Yahweh by Abraham and his people. Sounds like you’re still engaged in the same mistakes as Adam and Eve - jumping to dualism instead of loving outwardly - shouldn’t you know better by now?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 am

Aspen wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:28 am
What is more interesting to me is your need to divide God into Good and Bad entities in order to live with the tribal morality placed onto Yahweh by Abraham and his people. Sounds like you’re still engaged in the same mistakes as Adam and Eve - jumping to dualism instead of loving outwardly - shouldn’t you know better by now?
I will if you can explain why you sing in your Exsultet hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

If necessary, and you would not follow Adam's good lead, then you would throw god's plan under the bus.

Is that what you would do or would you do the right thing and sing as a happy fault the way you sing of it?

I wonder if the answer you give will be on the immoral Christian original Sin concept or on the original Jewish Original Virtue concept.

That will determine your knowledge and intelligence levels. Careful now.

Regards
DL

Aspen
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Re: question about evil

Post by Aspen » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 pm

“I will if you can explain why you sing in your Exsultet hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.”

Be careful now! Declaring ‘I will’ suggests dishonest intent or a blank check, I may cash. You know as well as I do that ‘happy fault’ describes the richness that God brings forth from tragedy. From all angles there is no justification for the Fall, until God justifies it along with humanity, by sacrificing His very Heart on the cross; then, flowering out of this sacrifice, is the highest degree of love, which is forgiveness. Without the Fall, we would not experience forgiveness. Was it worth it? I don’t think we get to ask that question because regardless of all our hindsight speculation, the event happened

“If necessary, and you would not follow Adam’s good lead, then you would throw God’s plan under the bus”

God’s plan was already being carried out in the Garden - we were perfect in our love for each other and God, until we were not. Christ, the Tree of Life, was present and we could approach Him as well, until we could no longer approach Him. I believe as the Franciscans, Christ would have come for us regardless of the Fall and given Himself completely.

“Is that what you would do or would you do the right thing and sing happy fault the way you sing it.”

Thanks for asking! Although, I doubt you have clue about how I sing, or what I believe about God, or even how I choose to worship Him. Now, back to this wonky scarecrow....he still needs work before he is ready for tipping. What I would do is not relevant to God’s plan, He is not a rigid minded Homer siting in a nursing home with only one way of carrying out his will, swearing every time his creatures ‘mess it up’. I have no idea if I would trade a state of perfect love for a desire to be ‘Right’, as Adam and Eve did. Hopefully, I would remain in perfection, but since I have often sought being right over loving others in my own life, I am not a particularly strong candidate for resisting the fruit. To answer your question regarding singing ‘happy fault’ - if I recognized a beautiful aspect of any dumpster fire, I would. If I were told to sing happy fault because a demigod enjoys his cup of consequentialism in the morning after dishing out sporadic episodes of torture to achieve his glory, than forget it - I am no Trumpster...

You will need to tell me what your moral objections to the Fall are before I comment on your statement.

Your brazen attempt to assessment my education and intellect based on whether or not I swing towards a Christian or Jewish understanding of the Fall is akin to humping my leg - no mounting or other bids for dominance are necessary in this conversation.

Peace

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:21 am

Aspen wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 pm
“I will if you can explain why you sing in your Exsultet hymn that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.”

Be careful now! Declaring ‘I will’ suggests dishonest intent or a blank check, I may cash. You know as well as I do that ‘happy fault’ describes the richness that God brings forth from tragedy. From all angles there is no justification for the Fall, until God justifies it along with humanity, by sacrificing His very Heart on the cross; then, flowering out of this sacrifice, is the highest degree of love, which is forgiveness. Without the Fall, we would not experience forgiveness. Was it worth it? I don’t think we get to ask that question because regardless of all our hindsight speculation, the event happened

“If necessary, and you would not follow Adam’s good lead, then you would throw God’s plan under the bus”

God’s plan was already being carried out in the Garden - we were perfect in our love for each other and God, until we were not. Christ, the Tree of Life, was present and we could approach Him as well, until we could no longer approach Him. I believe as the Franciscans, Christ would have come for us regardless of the Fall and given Himself completely.

“Is that what you would do or would you do the right thing and sing happy fault the way you sing it.”

Thanks for asking! Although, I doubt you have clue about how I sing, or what I believe about God, or even how I choose to worship Him. Now, back to this wonky scarecrow....he still needs work before he is ready for tipping. What I would do is not relevant to God’s plan, He is not a rigid minded Homer siting in a nursing home with only one way of carrying out his will, swearing every time his creatures ‘mess it up’. I have no idea if I would trade a state of perfect love for a desire to be ‘Right’, as Adam and Eve did. Hopefully, I would remain in perfection, but since I have often sought being right over loving others in my own life, I am not a particularly strong candidate for resisting the fruit. To answer your question regarding singing ‘happy fault’ - if I recognized a beautiful aspect of any dumpster fire, I would. If I were told to sing happy fault because a demigod enjoys his cup of consequentialism in the morning after dishing out sporadic episodes of torture to achieve his glory, than forget it - I am no Trumpster...

You will need to tell me what your moral objections to the Fall are before I comment on your statement.

Your brazen attempt to assessment my education and intellect based on whether or not I swing towards a Christian or Jewish understanding of the Fall is akin to humping my leg - no mounting or other bids for dominance are necessary in this conversation.

Peace
A lot of words that say nothing of the necessity of sin in god's plan.

"the event happened "

Thanks for the lie.

You say Jesus was a sacrifice but sacrifices that do not stay dead are not sacrifices.

You say there was love between A & E and god, while ignoring that love is good and A & E had yet to learn what was good and what was evil so to A & E, god was not a better choice than the tree of knowledge.

The Jews know this and that is why they have Original Virtue instead of Original Sin, which goes against the Jewish teachings.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

You might want to use logos instead of mythos when looking at your myths. Especially when adding an interpretation that does not follow your own dogma of a necessary sin.

Regards
DL

Geocalyx
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Re: question about evil

Post by Geocalyx » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:18 pm

Your false dualism is old news and has no place within Christianity
He's got you right there, bishop.
That will determine your knowledge and intelligence levels.
Your brazen attempt to assessment my education and intellect ...
Aspen, it reads to me like it's not about assessment of ability, it's about objective determination. This guy might be God. I'd be careful.
(btw bishop can you give me a sentence to read that determines my Hebrew to level 49 pretty please? i could use a boost)
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
It makes little difference when the same book ascribes crimes and wickedness to entire freaking nations and tribes.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:29 am

Geocalyx wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:18 pm
Your false dualism is old news and has no place within Christianity
He's got you right there, bishop.
??

Christianity does not have good and evil? :lol: :lol:

When did they lose those dualistic terms and position?
That will determine your knowledge and intelligence levels.
Your brazen attempt to assessment my education and intellect ...
Not brazen. Just a fact.
Aspen, it reads to me like it's not about assessment of ability, it's about objective determination. This guy might be God. I'd be careful.
(btw bishop can you give me a sentence to read that determines my Hebrew to level 49 pretty please? i could use a boost)
I may not be able to boost you over your own inflated personality.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
It makes little difference when the same book ascribes crimes and wickedness to entire freaking nations and tribes.
Are you saying that you do not think that those tenets are moral and should be our standard?

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: if so.

Regards
DL

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