question about evil

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
Geocalyx
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Re: question about evil

Post by Geocalyx » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 am

I may not be able to boost you over your own inflated personality.
Well you've been doing a good job so far
Are you saying that you do not think that those tenets are moral and should be our standard?

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: if so.
When they are based on something as vague and subjective as 'sin' and involve being 'put to death' as standard ... hell yea - I don't think these should be the standard, whether or not they apply to a both father or son or neither or whoever.

Edit:
??

Christianity does not have good and evil? :lol: :lol:

When did they lose those dualistic terms and position?
He's talking about your false dualism. These ...sort of manichaean..? ...opinions of yours really have no place within Christianity. I mean utter toxic shit like the following for example:
Good and evil are just two ends of a subjective scale.

You are building a scale with only one end and it is thus meaningless.

Yin without Yang to compliment it or good without evil to do the same shows you do not grasp the concept of duality.
This dualism is notably 'false' since rather than making a profound observance on the nature of good and evil, it's actually just a fancy way of saying 'evil can be justified.'
Last edited by Geocalyx on Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:29 am

Geocalyx wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 am
I may not be able to boost you over your own inflated personality.
Well you've been doing a good job so far
Are you saying that you do not think that those tenets are moral and should be our standard?

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: if so.
When they are based on something as vague and subjective as 'sin' and involve being 'put to death' as standard ... hell yea - I don't think these should be the standard, whether or not they apply to a both father or son or neither or whoever.

Edit:
??

Christianity does not have good and evil? :lol: :lol:

When did they lose those dualistic terms and position?
He's talking about your false dualism. These ...sort of manichaean..? ...opinions of yours really have no place within Christianity. I mean utter toxic shit like the following for example:
Good and evil are just two ends of a subjective scale.

You are building a scale with only one end and it is thus meaningless.

Yin without Yang to compliment it or good without evil to do the same shows you do not grasp the concept of duality.
Sin and crime were synonymous when those good moral tenets were formulated and I was not asking about penalties at all.
Thanks for deflecting though.

Let me ask again. Are those moral tenets good or evil. Just or unjust?

Scales always have two ends.

You might want to think before you write.

Regards
DL

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:33 am

Geocalyx wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 am
This dualism is notably 'false' since it's not saying good and evil are equal, it's actually saying 'evil can be justified.'
Many things that people see as evil can be justified if it is done for the greater good.

You see duality as forces in opposition. They are not and like Yin and Yang, they compliment each other. Think front and back or top and bottom.

Alan Watts on The Yin and the Yang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3LJ5HNfNEY

Regards
DL

Geocalyx
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Re: question about evil

Post by Geocalyx » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:39 am

I've since edited my post into oblivion, as you see. Yeah, I suck.
You might want to think before you write.
What fun would that be?
Let me ask again. Are those moral tenets good or evil. Just or unjust?
They aren't even moral. They are just direct instructions. Which you are supposed to obey, or else. The question is loaded.
Scales always have two ends.
Yes, but the nature of the higher things might be more complex than a merchant's tool.
Last edited by Geocalyx on Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Geocalyx
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Re: question about evil

Post by Geocalyx » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am

You see duality as forces in opposition. They are not and like Yin and Yang, they compliment each other. Think front and back or top and bottom.
Then there is no duality since both Light and Darkness have a just reason for existence. Evil does not.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:56 am

Geocalyx wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am
You see duality as forces in opposition. They are not and like Yin and Yang, they compliment each other. Think front and back or top and bottom.
Then there is no duality since both Light and Darkness have a just reason for existence. Evil does not.
Nature and evolution say otherwise.

You seem youngish but able to take what I give so perhaps you are educable. :thumbup:

Try this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Can you now see the benefits of evil to evolution?

If not, then read on. If you see it then do not bother. Remember though that it was designed for a believer.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 66/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL

Geocalyx
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Re: question about evil

Post by Geocalyx » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:59 am

*sigh* Look. A few examples.

Killing is not evil.
Excessive killing that disrespects life, that is evil.

One being harming another is not evil. One being harming another for reasons that have nothing to do with sustaining its own existence - that is evil. Extinction of species so they can become food = not evil. Extinction of species because it makes your lawn look bad = evil.

Killing a single Steller's Sea Cow to feed your crew of starved scurvy seamen - that's not evil. Killing 50 of them to repay the men that got there and feed their families - that's not evil either. Killing all of them in five years because you want to make a profit = evil.

There is no abstract morality to quickly turn to like a robot would. It's always in the act, and morality of each action should be evaluated on its own each time. But a bunch lazy headed pricks decided they don't wanna, and invented tribal "if sin, then death" black-and-white mantras that still sell themselves as pinnacles of human morality today ("if money, then good" for one). They base themselves in the illusion of detached morality you yourself are trying to sell.

Read it again:

there is no abstract morality

And ...those videos don't interest me. All they're trying to do is muddy the waters.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: question about evil

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:06 am

Ok.

Thanks for the chat.

Regards
DL

bbyrd009
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Re: question about evil

Post by bbyrd009 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:34 am

moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
i should prolly read through the comments, but obv those Christians are in denial and taking away from their own Book, yeh? "I create evil..." very plain.
"Wouldn't this mean" number 1, surely, as evidenced by the many Scriptural passages that agree with you there, "wouldnt this mean" number 2 surely, as evidenced by Santa Claus? And the many passages that agree with you there?

God as an Absolute, lol, where did we get this notion? Religious ppl, right? Not the Bible, trust me. "I AM" does not = "I EXIST," and we have more than one Passage for this debate also, Job, et al, even the I AM passage, encoded

bbyrd009
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Re: question about evil

Post by bbyrd009 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:40 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am

Then there is no duality since both Light and Darkness have a just reason for existence. Evil does not.
Nature and evolution say otherwise.

You seem youngish but able to take what I give so perhaps you are educable. :thumbup:

Try this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Can you now see the benefits of evil to evolution?

If not, then read on. If you see it then do not bother. Remember though that it was designed for a believer.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 66/?no-ist

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
[/quote]note who has eaten from "the tree of knowledge" as opposed to eating "what is it?"

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