Page 1 of 10

question about evil

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
by moses
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.

Re: question about evil

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:50 pm
by iskander
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
What is evil?
Suffering exists because remaining alive necessitates a mechanism to produce the sensation of pain: pain is therefore a protective sensation giving notice of danger. Being alive is the protective pain of existence and death is the cessation of pain.

Evil is the name given to the cause of pain; evil is whatever threatens our well-being as determined by the absence of pain. We all are the cause of pain to others at some time or another.

Re: question about evil

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:05 am
by Gnostic Bishop
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
If in the beginning there was only God, and all that is emanated from that beginning, then all that is, including evil had to come from God. The bible is clear that God creates evil. That is why he could write the tree of good and evil.

What is irksome is that Christianity wants to reward God for the good, but do not want to acknowledge that they also have God to thank for the evil. I call that hypocrisy.

Regards
DL

Re: question about evil

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am
by andrewcriddle
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
Evil can be seen as absence of good

Andrew Criddle

Re: question about evil

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:48 am
by Gnostic Bishop
andrewcriddle wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
Evil can be seen as absence of good

Andrew Criddle
I see that as simplistic drivel.

Good and evil are just two ends of a subjective scale.

You are building a scale with only one end and it is thus meaningless.

Yin without Yang to compliment it or good without evil to do the same shows you do not grasp the concept of duality.

Even in Eden, God say the tree of both good and evil as good and here you are trying to, in a sense, say that a tree of only good would have been better.

Regards
DL

Re: question about evil

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 am
by iskander
andrewcriddle wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
Evil can be seen as absence of good

Andrew Criddle
Yes, and for many Christians hell is also understood as the absence of God .

Re: question about evil

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:25 am
by Gnostic Bishop
iskander wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 am
andrewcriddle wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:44 am
moses wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:56 am
i have a philosophical question

some christians believe that God is not the creator of evil .They believe that God allows evil , but does not create it.

Wouldn't this mean that God is not maximally perfect in his power and control ? And wouldn't this mean that non-God things(evil) are able to come into existence magically without needing God to cause them?

How did evil pop into existence in the garden if God did not create it?


God seems to be like a being who is not absolute.
Evil can be seen as absence of good

Andrew Criddle
Yes, and for many Christians hell is also understood as the absence of God .
Many!

70 odd % believe in Satan.

That is not the absence of god as god is said to be Omni-present and scriptures say that he is in hell just as he is everywhere else.

You are correct that some fools think that an Omni-present god has a place or two where he refuses to be and thus lose his Omni-present status.

Regards
DL

Re: question about evil

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:42 am
by iskander
beowulf
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:09 am
Re: My Faith as I am Coming to Learn It

Post by beowulf » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:44 am
Eric wrote:It's funny how timing works. I was was just listening to some of George MacDonald's sermons narrated by Lloyd James, and in one of MacDonald's sermons he made a statement of Hell Fire as the fire that cleanses sinners (a paraphrase of his statement) however, I have it marked in the audio book to re-listen to it in more detail as I have much respect for George MacDonald.


In the First Unspoken Sermon, MacDonald seems to be saying that the word “fire” is the manifestation of God: “the burning of God, the consuming fire of Love”, as in the “burning bush “episode.

God is found in the darkness illuminated by the visible dark flame of his love .Eventually all is God and suffering exists no more: “Then indeed wilt thou be all in all.”
“If the man resists the burning of God, the consuming fire of Love, a terrible doom awaits him: He shall be cast into the outer darkness who hates the fire of God.

But with this divine difference: that the outer darkness is but the most dreadful form of the consuming fire—the fire without light—the darkness visible, the black flame. God hath withdrawn himself, but not lost his hold. His face is turned away, but his hand is laid upon him still. His heart has ceased to beat into the man’s heart, but he keeps him alive by his fire. And that fire will go searching and burning on in him, as in the highest saint who is not yet pure as he is pure.

But at length, O God, wilt thou not cast Death and Hell into the lake of Fire—even into thine own consuming self? Death shall then die everlastingly,

And Hell itself will pass away,
And leave her dolorous mansions to the peering day.
Then indeed wilt thou be all in all.”

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42&start=20

George MacDonald (10 December 1824 – 18 September 1905) was a Scottish author, poet and Christian minister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_MacDonald

Re: question about evil

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:57 am
by moses
this turned out to be a good conversation.

Re: question about evil

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:01 am
by bbyrd009
"God seems to be like a being who is not absolute"

being the gem here i guess :)

Unknown God, etc

i'll spring Eastern Dialecticism on you guys later, if i can't find it anywhere else here,
my premise will be that this is the perspective from which Scripture is written (rather than Logic)