Is an eye for an eye a good standard of justice?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Is an eye for an eye a good standard of justice?

God does not seem to think so.

Our standard of justice as shown in the scriptures and in most governments is based on an eye for an eye where the penalty has a relationship to the severity of the offence.

God does not go by this standard.

In his eyes, all sins are the same, in terms of the penalty God planned and will be punished eternally and in the same way.

Is God’s eternal punishment for all sinners, great or small, good justice?
If so, should we scrap an eye for an eye and have the same punishment for all crimes and sins?
Should we follow God’s lead instead of going against it in secular justice?

Is an eye for an eye good justice?

If you think so, please speculate on God’s overkill in terms of punishment.

Regards
DL

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Jesus seemed to think so.

Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you..."
(Mk. 4:244)

The notion that "all sin is the same" is one of the most deplorable and cowardly aspects of Christian popular thinking (and even the ones who say it don't really believe it).


For me personally, the basic concept of proportional penalty makes about as much sense as any concept of punishment can make. The idea of eternal punishment for anything at all is profoundly sick and depraved, but the New Testament writers don't believe in eternal Hell or sinners anyway, just death.

[Gnostic Bishop]

Jesus seemed to think so.

Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you..."
(Mk. 4:244)

The notion that "all sin is the same" is one of the most deplorable and cowardly aspects of Christian popular thinking (and even the ones who say it don't really believe it).


For me personally, the basic concept of proportional penalty makes about as much sense as any concept of punishment can make. The idea of eternal punishment for anything at all is profoundly sick and depraved, but the New Testament writers don't believe in eternal Hell or sinners anyway, just death.

Perhaps so but about half of the followers believe in Satan and hell.

I like your quote better than an eye for an eye. I do not read it as being an eye for an eye in the same sense. It seems to allow more room for individuals to exercise mercy and place some of the blame where it belongs. On society which is the entity that created the perpetrator in the first place.

Do you see it?

Regards
DL

[beowulf]

Is an eye for an eye a good standard of justice?

God does not seem to think so.

Our standard of justice as shown in the scriptures and in most governments is based on an eye for an eye where the penalty has a relationship to the severity of the offence.

God does not go by this standard.

In his eyes, all sins are the same, in terms of the penalty God planned and will be punished eternally and in the same way.

Is God’s eternal punishment for all sinners, great or small, good justice?
If so, should we scrap an eye for an eye and have the same punishment for all crimes and sins?
Should we follow God’s lead instead of going against it in secular justice?

Is an eye for an eye good justice?

If you think so, please speculate on God’s overkill in terms of punishment.

Regards
DL

Hi Gnostic Bishop

An eye for an eye is a very reasonable and generous way of dealing with problems and it can be easily improved.
An eye for an eye rules out all variants of hells , for example.

It also makes excessive punishment ineligible , for example the day of the lord:
Isaiah 13
13The oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amos saw.

2 On a bare hill raise a signal,
cry aloud to them;
wave the hand for them to enter
the gates of the nobles.
3 I myself have commanded my consecrated ones,
have summoned my warriors, my proudly exulting ones,
to execute my anger.

4 Listen, a tumult on the mountains
as of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar of kingdoms,
of nations gathering together!
The LORD of hosts is mustering
an army for battle.
5 They come from a distant land,
from the end of the heavens,
the LORD and the weapons of his indignation,
to destroy the whole earth.

6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty!*
7 Therefore all hands will be feeble,
and every human heart will fail,
8 and they will be dismayed.
Pangs and agony will seize them;
they will be in anguish like a woman in labour.
They will look aghast at one another;
their faces will be aflame.
9 See, the day of the LORD comes,
cruel, with wrath and fierce anger,
to make the earth a desolation,
and to destroy its sinners from it.
10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations
will not give their light;
the sun will be dark at its rising,
and the moon will not shed its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant,
and lay low the insolence of tyrants.
12 I will make mortals more rare than fine gold,
and humans than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
at the wrath of the LORD of hosts
on the day of his fierce anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
or like sheep with no one to gather them,
all will turn to their own people,
and all will flee to their own lands.
15 Whoever is found will be thrust through,
and whoever is caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces
before their eyes;
their houses will be plundered,
and their wives ravished.
17 See, I am stirring up the Medes against them,
who have no regard for silver
and do not delight in gold.
18 Their bows will slaughter the young men;
they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb;
their eyes will not pity children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,
the splendour and pride of the Chaldeans,
will be like Sodom and Gomorrah
when God overthrew them.

[Gnostic Bishop]

You indicate that the reciprocity of an eye for an eye can be improved. I assume you mean to benefits the perpetrator.

How would you show this mercy while remembering that the victim seeks reciprocity? He want's a full measure for closure most of the time I would think.

Regards
DL

[beowulf]

You indicate that the reciprocity of an eye for an eye can be improved. I assume you mean to benefits the perpetrator.

How would you show this mercy while remembering that the victim seeks reciprocity? He want's a full measure for closure most of the time I would think.

Regards
DL

An eye for an eye means that the punishment should reflect the severity of the crime .

It is not the victim who is responsible for enforcing the law, but society. How society understands what justice should mean constitute the problem requiring a solution. The solutions are , or should be, under constant consideration .

Improving the delivery of justice does not equate with mercy, but with the quality of the legal process that delivers justice and also with a more realistic assessment of the severity of the crime.

There are obvious crimes that the legal bodies of a society prosecute without considering the views of the victim, such as murder.

Regards

[Gnostic Bishop]

You indicate that the reciprocity of an eye for an eye can be improved. I assume you mean to benefits the perpetrator.

How would you show this mercy while remembering that the victim seeks reciprocity? He want's a full measure for closure most of the time I would think.

Regards
DL

An eye for an eye means that the punishment should reflect the severity of the crime .

It is not the victim who is responsible for enforcing the law, but society. How society understands what justice should mean constitute the problem requiring a solution. The solutions are , or should be, under constant consideration .

Improving the delivery of justice does not equate with mercy, but with the quality of the legal process that delivers justice and also with a more realistic assessment of the severity of the crime.

There are obvious crimes that the legal bodies of a society prosecute without considering the views of the victim, such as murder.

Regards

Without the victim, no measure of law can move forward so for you to say that the victim is not key is foolish.

Regardless, it seems that you like an eye for an eye and would only tweak it.

P. S. Every citizen is charged with enforcing the law and if he does not and lets it happen when he could prevent it, he will likely find himself charged as well.

Law is also a compulsion for all of us to discriminate against those who would break those laws.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL

[beowulf]

Without the victim, no measure of law can move forward so for you to say that the victim is not key is foolish.

Regardless, it seems that you like an eye for an eye and would only tweak it.

P. S. Every citizen is charged with enforcing the law and if he does not and lets it happen when he could prevent it, he will likely find himself charged as well.

Law is also a compulsion for all of us to discriminate against those who would break those laws

I don't tweak anything, a legislative assembly does.
The police investigates , not the victims
The jury decides, not the victims,
The judges sentence, not the victims

That punishment should reflect the severity of crime is a sound principle. I am glad you agree

[Gnostic Bishop]

Without the victim, no measure of law can move forward so for you to say that the victim is not key is foolish.

Regardless, it seems that you like an eye for an eye and would only tweak it.

P. S. Every citizen is charged with enforcing the law and if he does not and lets it happen when he could prevent it, he will likely find himself charged as well.

Law is also a compulsion for all of us to discriminate against those who would break those laws

I don't tweak anything, a legislative assembly does.
The police investigates , not the victims
The jury decides, not the victims,
The judges sentence, not the victims

That punishment should reflect the severity of crime is a sound principle. I am glad you agree

I agree with all statements I think.

That does not mean that it does not start with the victim. Without him or her, your list of action never come into play. This is plain to me but seems to have escaped you. Perhaps it is just style.

Regards
DL

[beowulf]

Without the victim, no measure of law can move forward so for you to say that the victim is not key is foolish.

Regardless, it seems that you like an eye for an eye and would only tweak it.

P. S. Every citizen is charged with enforcing the law and if he does not and lets it happen when he could prevent it, he will likely find himself charged as well.

Law is also a compulsion for all of us to discriminate against those who would break those laws

I don't tweak anything, a legislative assembly does.
The police investigates , not the victims
The jury decides, not the victims,
The judges sentence, not the victims

That punishment should reflect the severity of crime is a sound principle. I am glad you agree

I agree with all statements I think.

That does not mean that it does not start with the victim. Without him or her, your list of action never come into play. This is plain to me but seems to have escaped you. Perhaps it is just style.

Regards
DL

Yes, there must be a victim of a crime first. If there is no crime then the guiding principle of "an eye for an eye " does not apply.
We are now in full agreement!