Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.

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SteveSchlichter
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Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by SteveSchlichter »

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Yes but we are not talking of those. We are talking of the more intelligent part of humanity.

Now answer the question properly.

Why would such people do damage to themselves without a reason?

Regards
DL
People who are insane are not un-intelligent!

I am not sure why you are assuming we are discussing the intelligent part of humanity.

Pretend God exists. Pretend the Christian God exists. Assuming those two things then would you want to spend eternity with him? Worshipping him. Praising him. Thanking him for creating you? How does that sound to you?
Thor
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Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by Thor »

SteveSchlichter wrote:
Pretend God exists. Pretend the Christian God exists. Assuming those two things then would you want to spend eternity with him? Worshipping him. Praising him. Thanking him for creating you? How does that sound to you?
I pretend to have answered.
SteveSchlichter
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 am

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by SteveSchlichter »

Thor wrote:
SteveSchlichter wrote:
Pretend God exists. Pretend the Christian God exists. Assuming those two things then would you want to spend eternity with him? Worshipping him. Praising him. Thanking him for creating you? How does that sound to you?
I pretend to have answered.
Why would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Because people answer No to the question: Do you want to spend eternity with God?

That IS an answer.
Thor
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:09 pm

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by Thor »

SteveSchlichter wrote: Why would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Because people answer No to the question: Do you want to spend eternity with God?

That IS an answer.
Yes it is.

But you see the need for hell is created by the omnipotent God by not creating desire to spend eternity with God. Problems solved by the omnipotent, are problems created. The first cause in every aspect.
SteveSchlichter
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 am

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by SteveSchlichter »

Thor wrote:
SteveSchlichter wrote: Why would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Because people answer No to the question: Do you want to spend eternity with God?

That IS an answer.
Yes it is.

But you see the need for hell is created by the omnipotent God by not creating desire to spend eternity with God. Problems solved by the omnipotent, are problems created. The first cause in every aspect.
creating beings that can make bad choices is not the same as causing those choices. Causing the conditions for a choice is not the same as being the cause of bad choices. This is like saying money is bad because people make greedy choices. When, in fact charitable choices only have meaning because greed is a possibility.

The only other options would be to create beings that cannot choose or to force beings into choosing what you want against their will.
Thor
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:09 pm

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by Thor »

SteveSchlichter wrote:
creating beings that can make bad choices is not the same as causing those choices. Causing the conditions for a choice is not the same as being the cause of bad choices. This is like saying money is bad because people make greedy choices. When, in fact charitable choices only have meaning because greed is a possibility.

The only other options would be to create beings that cannot choose or to force beings into choosing what you want against their will.
Yes it is. Causing the conditions for a choice is the same as being the cause of the choice.

You ignore the question you asked, why would an omnipotent God need to create a hell? I never implied creating beings that can make bad choices being the same as causing those choices. I pointed out that the choice depends upon there being alternatives, the choice does not create need for it. How can someone choose if there is is not already conditions for a choice to be made. When you say charitable choices only have meaning because greed is a possibility. I say charitable choices can only be done if need for charity is created.

Pretend God exists. Pretend the Christian God exists. Was this not what you said? Yet at the same time you want me to pretend the gospels contain the story of human choices. That Judas choice was reason for arrest and execution of the Messiah. That there was no prophecy being fulfilled as renewal of the covenant between man and God. Well? What is it? Should I pretend both are correct at the same time?
SteveSchlichter
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 am

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by SteveSchlichter »

Thor wrote: Causing the conditions for a choice is the same as being the cause of the choice.
No, causing the conditions for a choice is a liberty. It does not make you culpable for the choices made. The presentation of choices can only be removed by not creating creatures with the ability for moral choices. A world without evil is a world without freedom to choose.
Thor wrote: How can someone choose if there is is not already conditions for a choice to be made. When you say charitable choices only have meaning because greed is a possibility. I say charitable choices can only be done if need for charity is created.
The need for charity is created by choices.
Thor wrote: That Judas choice was reason for arrest and execution of the Messiah. That there was no prophecy being fulfilled as renewal of the covenant between man and God. Well? What is it? Should I pretend both are correct at the same time?
Knowing what someone will do in the future does not make you culpable for their actions either.
Thor
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:09 pm

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by Thor »

SteveSchlichter wrote:
Thor wrote: That Judas choice was reason for arrest and execution of the Messiah. That there was no prophecy being fulfilled as renewal of the covenant between man and God. Well? What is it? Should I pretend both are correct at the same time?
Knowing what someone will do in the future does not make you culpable for their actions either.
Only if the future is set can it be known. Choices are already made, as they must lead to set future. You can not choose a future going against the will of God.

I believed predestination was part of christian theology, but it could be I mix up the relation? Either way I am ending my participation here, as I have nothing more to offer.
SteveSchlichter
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 am

Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by SteveSchlichter »

Thor wrote:
SteveSchlichter wrote:
Thor wrote: That Judas choice was reason for arrest and execution of the Messiah. That there was no prophecy being fulfilled as renewal of the covenant between man and God. Well? What is it? Should I pretend both are correct at the same time?
Knowing what someone will do in the future does not make you culpable for their actions either.
Only if the future is set can it be known. Choices are already made, as they must lead to set future. You can not choose a future going against the will of God.

I believed predestination was part of christian theology, but it could be I mix up the relation? Either way I am ending my participation here, as I have nothing more to offer.
I think you are right about that. When imagine omnipotence, though, It is just impossible to understand what is predestinated because of foreknowledge and what is foreknowledge because of what has been set in the future.

Nice talking to you.

~Steve
Clive
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Re: Would an omnipotent God need to create a hell?

Post by Clive »

moral God
Do we have a new oxymoron? (Euthyphro?)
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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