Where do we go when we die?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
outhouse
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by outhouse » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:51 am

Peter Kirby wrote:The question refers to the "I," consciousness, or what some call spirit or soul.


.

Which = mythology.


I would say once the power is shut off to the brain, it is exactly like pulling the power cord from your PC. Shows over.

outhouse
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by outhouse » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:55 am

John T wrote: "Just because the flame no longer shines does not mean the previous light from that flame died with it."


.
Straw man


Photons have nothing to do with human consciousness.

When one dies, consciousness stops. At this time a soul does not exist scientifically and it is a concept born of the mythology of men ignorant to what consciousness actually is.

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John T
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by John T » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:15 pm

Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:
If spin, ad hominem attacks and lies don't make the source of truth go away, they will stick their fingers in their ears, i.e. hit the "ignore button" and turn their back on the source.

John T
Interesting. I have noted that John T seems to be unaware of, and does respond to the posts I have made, pointing out the glaring errors in his 'logic'.
I am inclined therefore to think that 'ol John T here, not wanting to read, hear, or know the truth, has himself blinded himself, and has his own fingers firmly stuck in his ears.

So here I'll hail him yet again. Yo, John T are you reading this?

If you are reading this John, I have other posts directed to you that I have been patiently waiting to hear your response to.

I have no one on ignore. I want to know what every person has to say, no matter how ignorant, stupid, or offensive it might be. Whatever, what ever it is they may write or reply, is a reflection upon themselves. Nothing better than when an adversary manages to hoist themselves by their own petard.
Did someone call me out?

What seems to be your gripe? :confusedsmiley:

JT
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

Sheshbazzar
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by Sheshbazzar » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:06 pm

John T wrote:
Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:
If spin, ad hominem attacks and lies don't make the source of truth go away, they will stick their fingers in their ears, i.e. hit the "ignore button" and turn their back on the source.

John T
Interesting. I have noted that John T seems to be unaware of, and does not respond to the posts I have made, pointing out the glaring errors in his 'logic'.
I am inclined therefore to think that 'ol John T here, not wanting to read, hear, or know the truth, has himself blinded himself, and has his own fingers firmly stuck in his ears.

So here I'll hail him yet again. Yo, John T are you reading this?

If you are reading this John, I have other posts directed to you that I have been patiently waiting to hear your response to.

I have no one on ignore. I want to know what every person has to say, no matter how ignorant, stupid, or offensive it might be. Whatever, what ever it is they may write or reply, is a reflection upon themselves. Nothing better than when an adversary manages to hoist themselves by their own petard.
Did someone call me out?

What seems to be your gripe? :confusedsmiley:

JT
Read thread 'Mythicists: Promoting religious agendas?'
Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:
I'm trying to force the mythicists to think logically for themselves.

So, I will ask it again in a slightly different way:

Do you really think someone like Carrier [atheist/mythicist] would admit that Jesus was real even if a grave was dug up in the Qumran cemetery that had a head stone or scroll that said the body unearthed was one of Jesus 12 disciples (or family member of Jesus) and then the DNA from the body and radio carbon dating of the scroll agreed the unearthed evidence was from the 1st century A.D.?
Are you really so deficient in the understanding of simple logic that you do not even realize what is wrong with this imaginary scenario of yours?
Finding the grave of some 1st century 'disciple' of 'Jesus', or yet another christian religion produced scroll (or a hundred more such) would do nothing towards proving whether there actually was once any flesh and blood 'Jesus' behind the Christian mythology claiming that he was the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth.
.........
and subsequent posts. Acknowledge reading, comprehension, and do reply there.

S.

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John T
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by John T » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:47 am

Read thread 'Mythicists: Promoting religious agendas?'
Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:
I'm trying to force the mythicists to think logically for themselves.

So, I will ask it again in a slightly different way:

Do you really think someone like Carrier [atheist/mythicist] would admit that Jesus was real even if a grave was dug up in the Qumran cemetery that had a head stone or scroll that said the body unearthed was one of Jesus 12 disciples (or family member of Jesus) and then the DNA from the body and radio carbon dating of the scroll agreed the unearthed evidence was from the 1st century A.D.?
Are you really so deficient in the understanding of simple logic that you do not even realize what is wrong with this imaginary scenario of yours?
Finding the grave of some 1st century 'disciple' of 'Jesus', or yet another christian religion produced scroll (or a hundred more such) would do nothing towards proving whether there actually was once any flesh and blood 'Jesus' behind the Christian mythology claiming that he was the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth.
.........
and subsequent posts. Acknowledge reading, comprehension, and do reply there.

S.[/quote]

******************************************************

Yes. I read your post before and did not reply to it for obvious reasons, that is; you changed the meaning of the question into something not intended.

However, just in case my wording was not clear (happens a lot); I was questioning what evidence would be accepted for a human (flesh and blood) Jesus?
I was not talking about what evidence you would need to prove Jesus was "the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth".

Two very different topics.
Got it now? :thumbup:

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

Sheshbazzar
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by Sheshbazzar » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:22 pm

John T wrote:Read thread 'Mythicists: Promoting religious agendas?'
Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:
I'm trying to force the mythicists to think logically for themselves.

So, I will ask it again in a slightly different way:

Do you really think someone like Carrier [atheist/mythicist] would admit that Jesus was real even if a grave was dug up in the Qumran cemetery that had a head stone or scroll that said the body unearthed was one of Jesus 12 disciples (or family member of Jesus) and then the DNA from the body and radio carbon dating of the scroll agreed the unearthed evidence was from the 1st century A.D.?
Are you really so deficient in the understanding of simple logic that you do not even realize what is wrong with this imaginary scenario of yours?
Finding the grave of some 1st century 'disciple' of 'Jesus', or yet another christian religion produced scroll (or a hundred more such) would do nothing towards proving whether there actually was once any flesh and blood 'Jesus' behind the Christian mythology claiming that he was the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth.
.........
and subsequent posts. Acknowledge reading, comprehension, and do reply there.

S.
******************************************************
Yes. I read your post before and did not reply to it for obvious reasons, that is; you changed the meaning of the question into something not intended.

However, just in case my wording was not clear (happens a lot); I was questioning what evidence would be accepted for a human (flesh and blood) Jesus?
I was not talking about what evidence you would need to prove Jesus was "the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth".

Two very different topics.
Got it now? :thumbup:

Sincerely,
John T
Urp. I'm not buying it.

Lets try again.
John T wrote:
I'm trying to force the mythicists to think logically for themselves.

So, I will ask it again in a slightly different way:

Do you really think someone like Carrier [atheist/mythicist] would admit that Jesus was real even if a grave was dug up in the Qumran cemetery that had a head stone or scroll that said the body unearthed was one of Jesus 12 disciples (or family member of Jesus) and then the DNA from the body and radio carbon dating of the scroll agreed the unearthed evidence was from the 1st century A.D.?
Are you really so deficient in the understanding of simple logic that you do not even realize what is wrong with this imaginary scenario of yours?
Finding the grave of some 1st century 'disciple' of 'Jesus', or yet another christian religion produced scroll (or a hundred more such) would do nothing towards proving whether there actually was once any flesh and blood 'Jesus' behind the Christian mythology. Period.

NOR WAS I ... talking about what evidence you would need to prove Jesus was "the one and only god almighty and the creator of heaven and earth".

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Either there within thread (where it belongs), or here and now, address the actual thrust of my posts. That being that the 'logic' of your supplied example is faulty;
Finding the grave or the remains of a 'disciple', or of any 1st century NT personage other than 'Jesus' himself, will not, and cannot ever serve as any valid proof-positive evidence that there was an actual living flesh and blood Jesus.
And no amount of additional religion produced scrolls can ever serve as valid evidence of his existence either.

Now credible contemporary eye-witness independent attestation (NON-Xian) would make a good (but even then remain open to doubt and challenges) case for the one time existence of an actual flesh and blood Jesus.
Nothing such has ever been found, nor likely ever will be, in that any such 'Jesus' that is not mythologized always has been and still is contrary to the christian 'gospel's teachings. And such, as being 'heretical' to church teaching were for centuries diligently sought out and destroyed so as to cover the tracks of a lying religion.
A human and fully historical real Jesus if found and proven, would only serve to further discredit and destroy the evolved christian mythology, and ultimately christianity itself.

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John T
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by John T » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:19 am

Thanks for you input Sheshbazzar.

Obviously you feel strongly about your opinion.

However, the O.P. was, "Where do we go when we die?"
Might I suggest that you give up hijacking this thread and instead; start your own O.P. and go over your objections for allowing physical evidence to confirm that Jesus was real?

Let's see who else agrees with your so-called logic?
Perhaps I will join you there.

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:33 am

I am a Gnostic Christian and Universalist and am happy to share what a God would see in the evil souls of all sinners when looking at the big picture.

I hope this shows you exactly why evil sinners all end in heaven.

People are not born sinners unless insane and insanity is always forgivable.

So if not born evil sinners, then all evil sinners are nurtured to become evil sinners. The environment and those who nurture must thus share the evil sinners blame. Parents, teachers friends and enemies all conspired, (inadvertently or not), to make those children into the evil sinners they became.

God would see us all the same way and see us all contributing to all the evil of this world and thus we would all be deserving of punishment.
------------------------------------

On Righteousness.

The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality. There is equality in the heaven which is stretched out in all directions and contains the entire earth in its circle. The night reveals all the stars equally. The light of the sun, which is the cause of the daytime and the father of light, God pours out from above upon the earth in equal measure to all who have power to see. For all see alike, since here is no distinction between rich and poor, people and governor, stupid and clever, female and male, free men and slaves. Even the irrational animals are not accorded any different treatment; but in just the same way God pours out from above sunlight equally upon all the animals. He establishes his justice to both good and bad by seeing that none is able to get more than his share and to deprive his neighbor, so that he has twice the light his neighbor has.
------------------------------------

God then is forced to either punish us all or forgive us all. Since from God’s POV, we are all perfect, then he must forgive us. --- Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

The Christian church knew that we are all forgiven but because there was no money in that for the church, it lied to us all and created a hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

I await your thoughts on why you think God would punish or kill the souls of evil sinners instead of curing them and giving them heaven as a loving God would, --- when we are all evil sinners to God.

Regards
DL

Sheshbazzar
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by Sheshbazzar » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:20 am

John T wrote:Thanks for you input Sheshbazzar.

Obviously you feel strongly about your opinion.

However, the O.P. was, "Where do we go when we die?"
Might I suggest that you give up hijacking this thread and instead; start your own O.P. and go over your objections for allowing physical evidence to confirm that Jesus was real?
My reply;
Sheshbazzar wrote: Acknowledge reading, comprehension, and DO REPLY THERE.
It may be noted by anyone that to avoid any derail, I very clearly REQUESTED that you make your replies within the appropriate thread.
It is only continued here because of YOUR failure to take up, and to honestly address the matter of your faulty application of logic in the appropriate thread.

It only became a matter pertinent to the subject of this thread when YOU posted;
John T wrote: ad hominem attacks and lies don't make the source of truth go away, they will stick their fingers in their ears, i.e. hit the "ignore button" and turn their back on the source.
And THEN and there it did become pertinent to this thread, and to the thrust of your arguments being made here, in that I was one very much aware of YOU yourself acting in exactly that same manner whenever it suits you.
To confront a snake in the grass one must seek out where that snake in the grass has wiggled off to. Thus you may do your posturing, wiggling, and hissing here in this place rather than there. Your choice.

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John T
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Re: Where do we go when we die?

Post by John T » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:37 am

Sheshbazzar wrote:
John T wrote:Thanks for you input Sheshbazzar.

Obviously you feel strongly about your opinion.

However, the O.P. was, "Where do we go when we die?"
Might I suggest that you give up hijacking this thread and instead; start your own O.P. and go over your objections for allowing physical evidence to confirm that Jesus was real?
My reply;
Sheshbazzar wrote: Acknowledge reading, comprehension, and DO REPLY THERE.
It may be noted by anyone that to avoid any derail, I very clearly REQUESTED that you make your replies within the appropriate thread.
It is only continued here because of YOUR failure to take up, and to honestly address the matter of your faulty application of logic in the appropriate thread.

It only became a matter pertinent to the subject of this thread when YOU posted;
John T wrote: ad hominem attacks and lies don't make the source of truth go away, they will stick their fingers in their ears, i.e. hit the "ignore button" and turn their back on the source.
And THEN and there it did become pertinent to this thread, and to the thrust of your arguments being made here, in that I was one very much aware of YOU yourself acting in exactly that same manner whenever it suits you.
To confront a snake in the grass one must seek out where that snake in the grass has wiggled off to. Thus you may do your posturing, wiggling, and hissing here in this place rather than there. Your choice.
*************************************

Look, I'm only trying to be nice and save you from more embarrassment.
However, since you insist, 'my choice' is for you do it out in the open by starting your O.P. with your claim of what I got wrong and the evidence that backs it up.

Also, after you get trounced, I don't want to hear you whine to Peter that it is not fair that you picked a fight you couldn't win. :eek:

John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift

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