Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?

At present, governments control the law of the land and church policy to a large extent. Should the law of the land be God’s law?

Separation of church and state, to my way of thinking, is impossible. To think that an elected official who adheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the houses of government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous. Social, cultural and traditional conditioning that people live under cannot just be set aside in one’s mind. Further a representative must represent his constituents and in the U.S. they will be religious constituents who wish to be represented as religious and not necessarily secular.

Christians and other religious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny. Timocratic in the sense that God rules for love, honor and duty. Tyrannical in the sense that any who break any of the laws, large or small, are swiftly dealt with. The non-religious seek more of a democratic nation where they make the rules and not God. As a Gnostic Christian, I admit to being secular and have no love of the laws the Gods offer.

At present, we all live in Oligarchic countries. Some of these we call democratic, some communistic and others of various labels but at the end of the day, all of us live in Oligarchies. We are all owned and controlled by those with wealth and bought political power.

If I focus on the U.S., I do not see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, to not be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance here on earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven.

This goes against the notion of as above so below, or as Christians say, on earth as it is in heaven.

For Christians to end this governance conflict, --- they cannot have their cake and eat it too, ---Americans would have to bring God’s law to earth and scrap the notions of democracy and vote for a Timocratic Tyranny like what God has in heaven.

To accomplish the Christian goal of God’s law on earth as it is in heaven, the Christian right would have to gain power and end democracy in the U.S.

I would ask those Christians on the religious and political right, are you ready to try to dismantle the Oligarchy you presently live under, --- end the farce of democracy, --- and install God’s Timocratic Tyranny?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

[Tonto Goldstein]

See John Adams, second President of the United States, and a religious man for a refutation of your premise.

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner,

[Gnostic Bishop]

See John Adams, second President of the United States, and a religious man for a refutation of your premise.

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88), from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society (1965) p. 258, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner,

Nice ideal. It did not take.

We can definitely say that most if not all Presidents have used your "artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition,".

Think Bush and stem sells as well as his saying God told him to war against Iraq.

Nice quote though.

Regards
DL

[Clive]

Frances Pryor, a British archaeologist, has just written a book called "home" discussing archaeology of middle and late stone age in Britain.

It seems we were a quite peaceable co-operative actually reasonably well off lot!

Things started going pear shaped with agriculture that led to cities and hierarchies and big gods!

So I recommend communal barn raising, commonwealths, and similar anarchistic thinking, like of William Morris in News from Nowhere

https://www.marxists.org/archive/morris ... owhere.htm#

And treat all this fossicking around in old texts about big gods for what it is - quite fun eccentricities!

[Gnostic Bishop]

Frances Pryor, a British archaeologist, has just written a book called "home" discussing archaeology of middle and late stone age in Britain.

It seems we were a quite peaceable co-operative actually reasonably well off lot!

Things started going pear shaped with agriculture that led to cities and hierarchies and big gods!

So I recommend communal barn raising, commonwealths, and similar anarchistic thinking, like of William Morris in News from Nowhere

https://www.marxists.org/archive/morris ... owhere.htm#

And treat all this fossicking around in old texts about big gods for what it is - quite fun eccentricities!

It looks like people lived in relative peace for 20,000 years before the Bronze Age under Goddess worship.

Only after this epoch did fortified cities begin to be built and War Gods began to appear.

Yes, we should return to Goddess worship. Unfortunately, the old men who lead us like war too much.

Regards
DL