Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:04 am

You may think that miles of script is communication but it is not.

Regards
DL

User avatar
spin
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:44 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by spin » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:08 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:You may think that miles of script is communication but it is not.
The irony is naturally lost.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes

SpiritofLife
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by SpiritofLife » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:17 am

Now the initial complaint that their is a male dominance in the literature I am stating, is maybe partly true, but for the most part not at all true. You have not read the literature I am stating, I have never seen any of the Gnostic scripture qouted. You refer to eve from the rib Adam, not me. You have some gender neutral spam that when I try to get my wife to hang sheet rock, she says it's too heavy. I say stop spamin me with that weaker vessel crap and get equal.
My ontological commitment is we are male and female, not the same. WOMEN FOR THE MOST PART have rejected feminism, as unfeminine. If your reference to "Don't eat of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil", obligates, or allows me to disregard my obligations as the Husband to my wife and Father to my children; which is different from the obligations Of my Wife to me and my Children. When I don't do stuff(Dominate) people are pissed, come on dad, do your thing that men dads do, that dominant men do. Now if you live in some other world with out husbands and wives and children then I don't know where that is. But when the burglar is at the window who is expected to stop them. Of the men I know who do not take this dominant male role, for the most part people say what's up with him? So if things are cool with your wife and kids, good for you. If you don't have a wife, children, grandchildren, then we live in different worlds.
My point to all of this, these other scriptures though, there are still male and female roles, is Genesis, Torah, Law of Moses being the law of sin and death, is not the only account of creation and the tree of good and evil. When you and a woman riding in a car, get a flat tire, who changes it?
Not believing some thing is not the same as knowing the truth. I will say this, Jesus cast out unclean spirits from men and women. Unclean spirits had nothing in common with Jesus. What ever this spirit is, it is not clean. Jesus made them angry, this seems to make you angry. In the name of Jesus, Come out you unclean spirits. If you have nothing in common with Jesus, I would say you have a serious dilemma, whether you believe it or not.
Jesus was anointed with oil by women. Christ means anointed. No one ever talks about why there is no record of men anointing Him, but only women. They had a huge role in His ministry. They understood more of what he was saying than the men did and He did not care what the culture of the time said about it. The The Gospel of Mary and other Gnostic scriptures prove that women have as important a part in the Kingdom of God as men do, just not the same part.
If you think the creator of the universes is some one other than the being described in the Secret Book of John, then tell me who He is, and where you got your revelation. What is the name of the spirit moving you. By the words of you mouth you are justified, and by the words of your mouth you are condemned. Who condemns you? You do. If you want a gender neutral society tell me where you got your source code, revelation, Spam, for this model, where did the plans get drawn up? Who is the God/god of this society? Where did the law come from? who legislated it?
Rejoice, be glad, be of good cheer and Jubilation.

User avatar
spin
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:44 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by spin » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:39 am

SpiritofLife wrote:Now the initial complaint that their is a male dominance in the literature I am stating, is maybe partly true, but for the most part not at all true.
That's at least one step along the road to recovery.
SpiritofLife wrote:You have not read the literature I am stating, I have never seen any of the Gnostic scripture qouted.
I have in fact read much of this literature, but little of it is of use in understanding the orthodox christian tradition. For the most part the gospel of Thomas is the most significant for my purposes, though that is pre main gnostic corpus. Other works give some reflections for my needs but not enough for me to have remembered any of it.
SpiritofLife wrote:You refer to eve from the rib Adam, not me. You have some gender neutral spam that when I try to get my wife to hang sheet rock, she says it's too heavy. I say stop spamin me with that weaker vessel crap and get equal.
If you are trying to present gnostic literature as something significant, you need to deal with its content and repercussions.
SpiritofLife wrote:My ontological commitment is we are male and female, not the same.
I've already said this:
spin wrote:Difference, such as the physical difference between women and men, does not imply social and cultural inequality. Dogma may reinforce such inequality, as in the case of masculine dominated imagery and language.
SpiritofLife wrote:WOMEN FOR THE MOST PART have rejected feminism, as unfeminine.
Who's talked of feminism other than you? We were talking of masculine domination in religions, including the one whose texts you are peddling.
SpiritofLife wrote:If your reference to "Don't eat of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil", obligates, or allows me to disregard my obligations as the Husband to my wife and Father to my children; which is different from the obligations Of my Wife to me and my Children. When I don't do stuff(Dominate) people are pissed, come on dad, do your thing that men dads do, that dominant men do. Now if you live in some other world with out husbands and wives and children then I don't know where that is. But when the burglar is at the window who is expected to stop them. Of the men I know who do not take this dominant male role, for the most part people say what's up with him? So if things are cool with your wife and kids, good for you. If you don't have a wife, children, grandchildren, then we live in different worlds.
This is a little over the place, but "dominant male role" would make a lot of women cringe and your vision limited to family-related situations is telling as to your views of women and the world. The structure of society is opaque to those who benefit from that structure. Your social blindness is consequential.
SpiritofLife wrote:My point to all of this, these other scriptures though, there are still male and female roles, is Genesis, Torah, Law of Moses being the law of sin and death, is not the only account of creation and the tree of good and evil. When you and a woman riding in a car, get a flat tire, who changes it?
Whoever knows how. Do you live in a demented society where women are physically incapable of changing tyres? Or are you that dissociated from reality to think it's a man's job??
SpiritofLife wrote:Not believing some thing is not the same as knowing the truth. I will say this, Jesus cast out unclean spirits from men and women.
And I'll say this: you're merely stating unfounded beliefs, as you are in no position to make such a statement with any logical justification. And when you say that it isn't about logic, I'll simply tell you that you are abnegating your responsibilities to be rational and to make meaningful statements.
SpiritofLife wrote:Unclean spirits had nothing in common with Jesus.
More untinged and unfalsifiable beliefs. Before you gabble at people, you need to set out the logical ground rules for communication between you. You don't assume things that you don't know other people think is viable. You don't say things that will lead people to see you as a halfwit, if they don't hold the same presuppositions. You sound out the medium before you transmit. Otherwise, you produce the following apparently naive nonsense:
SpiritofLife wrote:What ever this spirit is, it is not clean. Jesus made them angry, this seems to make you angry. In the name of Jesus, Come out you unclean spirits. If you have nothing in common with Jesus, I would say you have a serious dilemma, whether you believe it or not.
Jesus was anointed with oil by women. Christ means anointed. No one ever talks about why there is no record of men anointing Him, but only women. They had a huge role in His ministry. They understood more of what he was saying than the men did and He did not care what the culture of the time said about it. The The Gospel of Mary and other Gnostic scriptures prove that women have as important a part in the Kingdom of God as men do, just not the same part.
You're not helping your case of trying to justify the male-centric religion. So women anointed the anointed. He is still the anointed and they are still props to the story. It is, as I said to you, opaque, because you are a male and the order of things is in your favor.
SpiritofLife wrote:If you think the creator of the universes is some one other than the being described in the Secret Book of John, then tell me who He is, and where you got your revelation.
There are too many things in that sentence that you have no way of knowing. I'm happy with unknowing, in the sense that there are lots of things I don't know, but the world doesn't normally hold that against me (if you understand the metaphor). I don't know the mechanics of what happened in the trillionths of a second after the big bang, so I can't comment about the emergence of the universe before the formulation of the smallest particles we know of, but neither can anyone else meaningfully. The evidence does not suggest a guided creation, but a working of itself out into what we call order.
SpiritofLife wrote:What is the name of the spirit moving you.
Provisionality. Everything is in flux. We have been spinning for over 13 billion years and will continue to do so until the last quark stops. Everything about you spins. You just don't know it. Nothing is fixed, nothing in stone that is meaningful. A chance-discovered jar of texts from the Egyptian desert is pure trivia, the linguistic remains of the cultural tendencies of a few ancient people who lived in their time with all their predilections. A tiny moment, it was, when you consider the time involved in the movement of Africa and South America apart. And that was a moment compared to the time that spanned the emergence of this planet. The god-like relationship you have over the insect, you can imaginatively parallel with yourself in the role of the insect. Then put god in your role when you shift up scale. And sad little people in Egypt trying to make sense of this world hit upon little ideas you find in the Nag Hammadi corpus. And people will look back to us and wonder at our little ideas.
SpiritofLife wrote:By the words of you mouth you are justified, and by the words of your mouth you are condemned. Who condemns you? You do. If you want a gender neutral society tell me where you got your source code, revelation, Spam, for this model, where did the plans get drawn up? Who is the God/god of this society? Where did the law come from? who legislated it?
Rejoice, be glad, be of good cheer and Jubilation.
I have not talked of a gender neutral society. One doesn't try to eradicate the differences between men and women. One tries to allow the most responsible possibility for each and that cannot involve domination of one over the other without the great probability of the one taking advantage of the other, of clawing up on the back of the other and, by doing so, forcing the other down.

In our society women have broken into politics, into the military, police, science, law, all facets of our culture and doing it well. Still, they are paid consistently less than males while doing the same job. This is an improvement over the last century. In some countries women have only been able to participate in democracy for less than a century and in others not much more. Not long before that women shed the status of being chattle. That means that they have been held back for millennia. They are still being held back. They have not reached the extent of responsible possibility open to them. Men are generally too busy taking advantage of their status to be aware that it is artificial, a social construct, a construct your religion embeds. God is male. The savior is male. All actors in the religion are male. Women are at best foot washers, anointers, food suppliers and mothers of significant males. This is the social reality inherited by the writers of the religion. They pass on their own social and cultural traditions. What else can you expect.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes

SpiritofLife
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:33 am

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by SpiritofLife » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:43 pm

Jesus was the foot washer, he was the servant, the servant is greatest of all in the Kingdom of Heaven. The servant King. He not only would wash your feet, He would cleanse your soul if you believed and asked asked Him to. He has done everything for you. Men and Women, It is finished.

User avatar
spin
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:44 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by spin » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:41 pm

SpiritofLife wrote:Jesus was the foot washer,
You certainly missed out on that one didn't you. Tunnel vision kicks in and you forget everything. One symbolic act and everyone says hey, wtf, why is he washing our feet? The status quo is reinforced by the apparent incongruity of events. Kickstart the brain rather than flee your responsibilities to think and understand. Such gutless evasiveness here in this one rush to judgment is very telling. The metanarrative is abundantly clear about the societal roles.
SpiritofLife wrote:he was the servant, the servant is greatest of all in the Kingdom of Heaven. The servant King. He not only would wash your feet, He would cleanse your soul if you believed and asked asked Him to. He has done everything for you. Men and Women, It is finished.
Yep, he would be the actor and clean your soul. He has done everything for you. This god couldn't have had a daughter, which would have been truly revolutionary. The cultural context forbad him.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes

User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 5973
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:54 pm

SpiritofLife wrote:Jesus was the foot washer, he was the servant, the servant is greatest of all in the Kingdom of Heaven. The servant King. He not only would wash your feet, He would cleanse your soul if you believed and asked asked Him to. He has done everything for you. Men and Women, It is finished.
“[Jesus] originated as a mythical character in tales symbolically narrating the "salvific acts" of a 'divine being' who never walked the earth. Later this myth was mistaken for history, or deliberately repackaged that way, and then embellished over time … The odds Jesus existed are less than 1 in 12,000 [.008%]. Which to a historian is for all practical purposes a probability of zero. Even when I entertain the most generous estimates possible, I find I cannot by any stretch of the imagination believe the probability Jesus existed is better than 1 in 3 [32%].”

Richard Carrier, On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason to Doubt, pp xi, 600

as cited by Loren Rosson

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:09 am

Christianity against women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYI ... re=related

The Gnostic Christian view of equality.


-------------------

On Righteousness

The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

-------------------------

Gnostic View of Gender Equalityby Meera Lester


The Gnostic writings celebrate women as bearers of truth, wisdom, and light. The Gnostic God is often regarded in the context of a dyad possessing both masculine and feminine attributes. The orthodox Christians speak of God the Father and his Son. For the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is added. Mary, the holy mother of Jesus, is not accorded the same stature as God the Father, though she may be reverently referred to as “Mary, Mother of God,” according to religious scholar Elaine Pagels, an expert on the Gnostics. But Mary is not considered the same as God the Father in feminine form. Yet the Jewish wisdom literature in the Hebrew scriptures (Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, Sirach, the Wisdom of Solomon, etc.), in which Christianity has roots, personifies Wisdom as a female.

http://www.netplaces.com/gnostic-gospel ... uality.htm

The overall Gnostic Christian view as concerns male duty to family is to put women and children ahead of men.
As with the law of the sea, we grant equality plus for women and children.

Some think that that is discrimination and wrong.
They are correct that it is discrimination but they are wrong to think it wrong.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

gavingaxg
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:17 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by gavingaxg » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:33 pm

I believe in the existence of God, he is my belief, and he let me face failure and frustration with courage, God is merciful, Believing in God and having free will is compatible. http://www.nflshopco.com/nfl-jerseys/se ... -2590.html
__________________________________________________________________________
Last edited by gavingaxg on Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:15 pm

gavingaxg wrote:I believe in the existence of God, he is my belief, and he let me face failure and frustration with courage, God is merciful, Believing in God and having free will is compatible.
Tell us what happened to Adam and Eve the first time they used their free will?

Does God's reaction strike you as that of a God who was allowing them to do their will or of a God who demanded that they do his will?

Regards
DL

Post Reply