Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
Diogenes the Cynic
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:59 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Diogenes the Cynic » Fri May 16, 2014 7:32 am

That "executive" function of your brain needs a will of its own in order to make choices and something has to cause that will. How do you choose something without wanting to choose it? How can you decide what to want without already wanting it?

Mental flatliner
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Mental flatliner » Sat May 17, 2014 6:11 am

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:That "executive" function of your brain needs a will of its own in order to make choices and something has to cause that will. How do you choose something without wanting to choose it? How can you decide what to want without already wanting it?
If I can discipline myself to not want, your question is rendered moot.

Diogenes the Cynic
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:59 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Diogenes the Cynic » Sat May 17, 2014 2:25 pm

You would need a will to make that effort and sustain it, so no you can't.

Mental flatliner
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Mental flatliner » Sat May 17, 2014 3:18 pm

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:You would need a will to make that effort and sustain it, so no you can't.
I actually have.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I fully believe that you can't and you can only speak from your own experience.

Diogenes the Cynic
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:59 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Diogenes the Cynic » Sat May 17, 2014 3:54 pm

Mental flatliner wrote:
Diogenes the Cynic wrote:You would need a will to make that effort and sustain it, so no you can't.
I actually have.
You actually haven't. It is not logically possible to not do what you want, even if what you want is self-denial. Denying yourself an extra slice of cake is still doing what you want. You're still exercising will. That's why they call it "willpower."

Mental flatliner
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Mental flatliner » Sat May 17, 2014 4:26 pm

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:
Mental flatliner wrote:
Diogenes the Cynic wrote:You would need a will to make that effort and sustain it, so no you can't.
I actually have.
You actually haven't. It is not logically possible to not do what you want, even if what you want is self-denial. Denying yourself an extra slice of cake is still doing what you want. You're still exercising will. That's why they call it "willpower."
Your logic is insufficient to determine this. Only arrogance can convince you otherwise.

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu May 22, 2014 10:50 am

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
You obviously did because you did not do as bid.
I had no ability to want to do as bid.
Who withheld that ability that you would normally have?
Your request was logically impossible anyway.


Please show where the logic breaks down. In detail.
No one can give you anything that doesn't exist.
Ever give advice? :banghead:
What we proved was that you chose not to give up your will to begin your reply your way.
I didn't choose what to want.
Yes you did.

Why did you choose to not comply? :confusedsmiley:

Regards
DL

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu May 22, 2014 10:59 am

beowulf wrote:
beowulf wrote:To Gnostic Bishop .
Free will


In criminal , civil and commercial law the legal competence of the participants is decided by a court of law. For example ,in the last will of a person the witnesses will be expected to state if the person is of sound mind and not acting under duress ,menace or undue influence...:
Free will in human affairs is understood as " free from being hindered by opposition," as Hobbes so lucidly wrote in Leviathan.
Hobbes wrote:And words whereby we conceive nothing but the sound, are those we call absurd, insignificant, and nonsense. And therefore if a man should talk to me of a round quadrangle; or, accidents of bread in cheese; or, immaterial substances; or of a free subject; a free will; or any free, but free from being hindered by opposition, I should not say he were in an error, but that his words were without meaning, that is to say, absurd.
Equally good is this modern version:
andrewcriddle wrote:Our criteria for praising blaming rewarding and punishing tend to assume some notion of free will.

Andrew Criddle

So, What's the importance of the term 'free will' in godly dealings?
"hindered".

In terms of Godly dealings, God is never hindered. All powerful and all that.

Regards
DL
If god does not exist the question of free will is to be decided by human judges without any interference, and only in cases brought to the consideration of the court by lawyers or prosecutors.

If people believe in god then the supremacy of god must be accepted by the believers. There is no superior court which could judge the merits of the case and there is no power which could enforce any arbitration in a disputed judgment. God is the Super, Super Supreme Court.
The religious person may say he/she is going through a test to establish goodness and that this test is lawfully willed by god. It is a one sided relation, but god will not " hinder" man/woman while he/she is alive.

In this model there is no hindrance and free will appear to be meaningful .
What would you say?[/quote]

:confusedsmiley: :scratch:

How can it be one sided when the other is recognized?

That the question leaves way too much to be defined within it to be answered. Rephrase and KIS.

Regards
DL

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Thu May 22, 2014 11:05 am

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:There is a distinction between will and FREE will. You can't choose your impulses.
Then who chose to reply this way to your impulse to reply?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE&feature=kp

:whistling:

Regards
DL

Diogenes the Cynic
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:59 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Re: Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil; Free Will

Post by Diogenes the Cynic » Thu May 22, 2014 11:06 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Diogenes the Cynic wrote:
Who withheld that ability that you would normally have?
That's not an ability I would normally have, The ability does not exist for anybody at any time.
Your request was logically impossible anyway.


Please show where the logic breaks down. In detail.
You made a request for me to relinquish something which I have never possessed.
No one can give you anything that doesn't exist.
Ever give advice?
Advice exists.
I didn't choose what to want.
Yes you did.
Logically impossible. In order to choose what to want, you first have to want to choose it. You always end up with a regression of deciders. Can you decide what your next thought is going to be?
Why did you choose to not comply?
I didn't.
Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic on Thu May 22, 2014 11:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

Post Reply