Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

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ficino
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:15 pm

Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Post by ficino »

I hesitated over where to post this interesting review. I hope it's not too neglected in this Classical Texts subforum!

Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Colleen Manassa, Egyptologist at Yale, has written a book on the genre of historical fiction in New Kingdom Egypt. I post the review first, because I hadn't thought of how old is that genre. If historical fiction was already well established in Egypt, does that shed any light on the context of writing of parts of the Bible? Second, folks who are interested in investigating biblical stories as literary productions may be interested in the methodology and assumptions set forth by Manassa.

This from the review:

"the author first discusses her definition of historical fiction as 'narrative in which a process of historical events is itself an actor within the plot and whose characters are directly and repeatedly influenced by those events' (p. 3).1 Then she proceeds to introduce the four tales, relating their production and circulation to the intellectual context of Egypt's temple and scribal cultures and stressing their dynamic intertextuality with earlier and contemporary historical narratives. Next, the author engages with Mikhail Bakhtin's famous "chronotope", arguing that these tales' particular treatment of spatiotemporal aspects distinguishes them from other types of Egyptian narrative. Finally, the author briefly discusses the tales' "paratextual elements", pointing out, among other things, that their mixed Late Egyptian and Middle Egyptian grammar could be taken as an additional sign of their fictionality, and that possibly the tales' transmission followed parallel oral and written paths."
slevin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Re: Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Post by slevin »

ficino wrote:I hesitated over where to post this interesting review. I hope it's not too neglected in this Classical Texts subforum!
I can understand your anxiety:

https://www.google.com/search?q=colleen ... B582%3B558
ficino wrote: Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Colleen Manassa, Egyptologist at Yale, has written a book on the genre of historical fiction in New Kingdom Egypt. I post the review first, because I hadn't thought of how old is that genre. If historical fiction was already well established in Egypt, does that shed any light on the context of writing of parts of the Bible? Second, folks who are interested in investigating biblical stories as literary productions may be interested in the methodology and assumptions set forth by Manassa.
excellent topic!!! Thank you, ficino.

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/1 ... 0199982226
Colleen Manassa wrote:ABSTRACT
This book examines four tales within the corpus of ancient Egyptian literature. During the Ramesside Period, the ancient Egyptians composed stories set two or even three centuries earlier. Known by their modern titles, The Quarrel of Apepi and Seqenenre, The Capture of Joppa, Thutmose III in Asia, and The Libyan Battle Story, each tale uses historically-attested figures within a plausible, yet fictional, narrative. Plot elements range from a witty exchange of letters to the first attested stratagem in world military history. Imagining the Past draws upon ancient Egyptian sources as well as (snip)
Yes, well, that's the crux of the matter, isn't it?

What I will seek to learn, upon procuring a copy of her book, is how these figures, in these four fictional accounts, have been "historically-attested". Since at least some of these tales precede Homer, one wonders which source Dr. Manassa will use to verify the historical existence of these four legendary characters.

Kind of shameful that Yale still adheres to a morality code that is obsolete. Their sexual liason harmed no one, but his loss from the university, even if for only one year, is regrettable. Many years ago, I brought a lawsuit against a college, where I had given instruction. The textbook for the course had been written by a faculty member, who had engaged in overt plagiarism, but no one blinked an eye. Sex = evil. Theft = no problem. What a corrupt society. Perhaps my recollection could serve as a topic appropriate for an historical novel? I could jump back in forth, in time, between Egypt and ---- yeah, ok, maybe not.
ficino
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Post by ficino »

I didn't know what scandal you meant; your google link is only to photos. I googled manassa's married name and got some reports of the situation, with comments. Sounds a mess - the sort of thing that has happened in other venues before.

Will be interested in your views on antecedents of historical fiction - assuming that name is apt for the genre of the writings that Manassa discusses.
slevin
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Re: Egyptian historical fiction - any parallels?

Post by slevin »

ficino wrote:I didn't know what scandal you meant; your google link is only to photos.
:D
The photos demonstrate that she is in the 1%.

The scandal is the logical consequence of a female, with that appearance, showing up in a hot climate, to participate in a male dominated activity, with a shortage of water....
ficino wrote:Will be interested in your views on antecedents of historical fiction - assuming that name is apt for the genre of the writings that Manassa discusses.
I will request her book. May take a month to obtain. We know of some modern era titles, involving real people, or genuine places, and those books are clearly fictional, but distinction of fiction from fact in societies of two, three, or four thousand years ago, is a task made more difficult by intervening forgery (papyrus), or defacement (stone or wood carvings). An Egyptian pharoh dies, and his policy, supporting monotheism, dies with him, leading to defacement of his god, Amun, from sandstone carvings created on his instructions.
http://www.thecairopost.com/news/124183 ... d-in-sudan
Then, how do we judge a claim of historical veracity, with respect to individuals related to Akhenaten, given our knowledge of an obvious, orchestrated suppression of evidence, concerning his reign?

Without some incontrovertible method to assess historicity of the various characters in the text, it will be a challenge to convincingly demonstrate "historical fiction". Fifteen hundred years after Akhenaten, Lucian of Samosata intermingled genuine and fictional characters together with ease, and without, from today's point of view, concern for distinguishing the two categories. Was Peregrinus fictional, or did Lucian write a biography? At the end of the day, how do we become convinced that Dr. Manassa has "the truth" about Thutmose III, in order to assess a work of fiction, involving the greatest general who never lost a battle? How much of what we know about him, comes from the direction of his coregent, and Aunt, Hatshepsut? Do historical, factual accounts survive dynastic demise, preserved intact by subsequent rulers?
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