On Time

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Clive
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On Time

Post by Clive »

http://openjournals.library.usyd.edu.au ... /5540/6208

WM O'Neil The Scandal of the Dating of Easter

Fascinating discussion here, noting GJohn is puzzling and that in some Julian years Passover could occur twice!

It is very likely that Paul was the foolish one who was completely befuddled by various calendars in use, or possibly this comment reflects a continuing argument that has always had huge theological implications.

I strongly recommend teasing out the various calendars being used by the various parties, the very careful checking of everything and all the theological and doctrinal implications.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: On Time

Post by Clive »

Would not the new heaven and earth also have a new system of time? Would not "death where is thy sting" involve control of time?

Maybe the arguments of the date of Easter had a "real" effect - they showed which was the true Church because that one carried out the correct rituals on the right day and therefore raised Christ from the dead - classic magical thinking - and definitely something to anathemise others about.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: On Time

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Clive wrote:Would not the new heaven and earth also have a new system of time? Would not "death where is thy sting" involve control of time?

Maybe the arguments of the date of Easter had a "real" effect - they showed which was the true Church because that one carried out the correct rituals on the right day and therefore raised Christ from the dead - classic magical thinking - and definitely something to anathemise others about.

According to received history the calculation of the date of Easter was decided by the Nicaean Church. They forgot all about precession and went ahead and chained the calculation of easter to the vernal equinox. The problems this caused were only corrected during the Gregorian calendar reform.



LC
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Clive
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Re: On Time

Post by Clive »

I think the academics need to look seriously at the theology of time!

The story of the Christ - death where is thy sting - is precisely about conquering time!
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Robert Tulip
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Re: On Time

Post by Robert Tulip »

Leucius Charinus wrote:
Clive wrote:Would not the new heaven and earth also have a new system of time? Would not "death where is thy sting" involve control of time?

Maybe the arguments of the date of Easter had a "real" effect - they showed which was the true Church because that one carried out the correct rituals on the right day and therefore raised Christ from the dead - classic magical thinking - and definitely something to anathemise others about.
According to received history the calculation of the date of Easter was decided by the Nicaean Church. They forgot all about precession and went ahead and chained the calculation of easter to the vernal equinox. The problems this caused were only corrected during the Gregorian calendar reform.
LC
If we understand the 'new heaven and new earth' as the dawn of the Age of Aquarius, then original Christian theology is based on an accurate scientific understanding of time, in terms that were entirely possible using ancient naked eye astronomy.

The chaining of Easter to the spring equinox is all about accurate scientific Gnosis regarding precession, with the Christian Age of Pisces/Virgo celebrated at Easter, which is the time of year when the sun and moon are opposite each other and which at the time of Christ began to precess into the star groups of Pisces and Virgo (the signs of the fishes and loaves) respectively. The Easter positions of sun and moon are now precessing into Aquarius and Leo, defining the next Aeon.

I hope some of our fundamentalist friends don't read this post, since mention of the Age of Aquarius could bring on a heart murmur.
Clive
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Re: On Time

Post by Clive »

I think there are serious issues with the understanding of calendars and the introduction of the new Julian one made it worse. There were also huge continuing debates and arguments -see op link. The Xians did not have competence in these issues -they were working from theological bases

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Clive
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Re: On Time

Post by Clive »

The op link in fact ties the disputes about the date of Easter directly to the theological dispute about the relationship of the father to the son!

Dates and times are theological issues!
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Robert Tulip
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Re: On Time

Post by Robert Tulip »

Hi Clive, I have now read Professor O’Neil’s essay on Easter. Thanks, it is informative. I have also read his book Early Astronomy from Babylonia to Copernicus which likewise is excellent, illustrating how concepts of measuring time and space have evolved.
It all makes me think we should again reform the calendar to base it on the sun and moon, to put our sense of time into harmony with nature. That would mean having twelve or thirteen months each year, with the weeks directly matching to the phases of the moon, and the months determined by the solstices and equinoxes. A full moon would always be on a Sunday and every fourth week would have eight or nine days. Most years would have 354 days, and on the once in a blue moon event where there are two new moons in a month the second new moon would be the beginning of the thirteenth month (Ophiuchus).
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John T
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Re: On Time

Post by John T »

The Essenes had a different calender of 364 days based on the Sun.

"The first day of the year and each season began on a Wednesday."Passover, the fifteenth day of the first month, was always celebrated on a Wednesday; the Feast of Weeks, the fifteenth day of the third month, always on a Sunday..."pg 79 The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English.

Once you know this, then all the discrepancies for the date of Easter are removed.

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
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