Hot Cross Buns

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Peter Kirby
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Hot Cross Buns

Post by Peter Kirby »

I'm not sure what to make of it, but this actually surprised me!

D. Jason Cooper, Mithras, p. 142
Murals showing the communion show bread being used, and that bread is sometimes in the form of wafers or small cakes with a cross on them.
D. Jason Cooper, Mithras, p. 143
Other representations of the Sacred Meal of bread and wine show more detail. In the Konjic relief for instance. the Pater and the Heliodromus partake of wine and small cakes or loaves of bread marked with a cross.
I don't know enough about art in antiquity or ancient iconography to rule out the simplest possible explanation -- that this was just a commonplace (??maybe??) for representing bread in art.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Peter Kirby wrote:I'm not sure what to make of it, but this actually surprised me!

D. Jason Cooper, Mithras, p. 142
Murals showing the communion show bread being used, and that bread is sometimes in the form of wafers or small cakes with a cross on them.
D. Jason Cooper, Mithras, p. 143
Other representations of the Sacred Meal of bread and wine show more detail. In the Konjic relief for instance. the Pater and the Heliodromus partake of wine and small cakes or loaves of bread marked with a cross.
I don't know enough about art in antiquity or ancient iconography to rule out the simplest possible explanation -- that this was just a commonplace (??maybe??) for representing bread in art.
Nor do I. But there is definitely a visual similarity between the Mithraic and the Christian representation of bread (may have to squint on the first one):

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Secret Alias »

Obviously y'all aren't foodies. The 'X' isn't a religious symbol at all originally. It is to allow the bread to 'bloom' in the oven (i.e. achieve a pleasant shape when the yest rises).
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Post by Secret Alias »

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/scoring

The practice is called 'scoring' in English. Here is the explanation.

Scoring is generally performed just prior to loading the loaves in the oven. French rye breads (pains de siegle) are sometimes scored right after shaping, before proofing.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Secret Alias »

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/scoring

The practice is called 'scoring' in English. Here is the explanation.
Scoring is generally performed just prior to loading the loaves in the oven. French rye breads (pains de siegle) are sometimes scored right after shaping, before proofing.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Secret Alias »

It might have taken on some religious meaning in Christianity but it is unclear that this was true in Mithraism.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Peter Kirby »

Secret Alias wrote:Obviously y'all aren't foodies. The 'X' isn't a religious symbol at all originally. It is to allow the bread to 'bloom' in the oven (i.e. achieve a pleasant shape when the yest rises).
That is what I was thinking about, when mentioning the possibility that this is just to represent bread as bread.

I don't know that much about how bread was baked in antiquity, either...
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote:Obviously y'all aren't foodies. The 'X' isn't a religious symbol at all originally. It is to allow the bread to 'bloom' in the oven (i.e. achieve a pleasant shape when the yest rises).
I am a foodie, and there are literally dozens of ways to score the top of a round loaf of bread so as to create the pleasant shape(s) you speak of.
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Ben C. Smith »

That said, yes, of course, both Peter and I implicitly acknowledged that artistic convention may yet be at the heart of it.
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Re: Doherty's reading of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11)

Post by Secret Alias »

Here is the description which might be useful:
Finally, the mysteries involved the ritual use of bread and water, employed in a manner which Justin Martyr mentions as being a point of common knowledge, while Tertullian describes the rite as an oblation of bread (panis oblationem). In the Avesta ritual, the water was mixed with haoma or ofiw/mi as Plutarch calls it, a holy plant of the Magi unknown to the West, in order to make a sacred drink imparting strength and wisdom. The Konjica relief, which shows a sacred banquet in progress (graced by a dish of small round loaves of Pompeian type, indented for breaking into quarters) is combined with the graffiti of expenses for food and drink incurred by Mithraists. https://books.google.com/books?id=83xnA ... IQ6AEIIjAB
So apparently the twice scored bread was done so that the bread broke up into quarters.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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