Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:49 pm Carrier's comment on the procurator-prefect issue re Pilate in On the Historicity of Jesus, p. 345

If I recall correctly Carrier has no reasonably contemporary evidence whatsoever for his conclusion, depending on inferences from later and much later data.

spin do you have a link that I can look up?

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am spin do you have a link that I can look up?

I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am spin do you have a link that I can look up?

I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 amspin do you have a link that I can look up?

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 amI was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 amOops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 amspin do you have a link that I can look up?

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 amI was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 amOops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.

ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 amspin do you have a link that I can look up?

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 amI was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 amOops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.

ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.

Actually, Feldman translates eparchos wrongly as "procurator" (see link). I corrected in to "prefect" from the Greek.

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pmIf memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.

The Greek word understood to indicate a procurator is epitropos.

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:42 pm

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 amspin do you have a link that I can look up?

spin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 amI was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 amOops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.

ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.

Actually, Feldman translates eparchos wrongly as "procurator" (see link). I corrected in to "prefect" from the Greek.

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pmIf memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.

The Greek word understood to indicate a procurator is epitropos.

Well if Feldman translated it the same why as in the quote I gave how is Feldmans translation any better then the one I gave?

Also if I am reading the link correctly eparchos should be translated commander.

Great link by the way. thanks, it is now on my favorites.

pneuma wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:01 pm Also if I am reading the link correctly eparchos should be translated commander.

I think you need to look at the rest of the entry for eparchos, including "Lat. praefectus (in all senses)" and what follows!