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Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:43 pm
by spin
neilgodfrey wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:49 pm
Carrier's comment on the procurator-prefect issue re Pilate in On the Historicity of Jesus, p. 345
If I recall correctly Carrier has no reasonably contemporary evidence whatsoever for his conclusion, depending on inferences from later and much later data.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
by pneuma
spin do you have a link that I can look up?

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
by spin
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 am
by pneuma
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....
Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm
by spin
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.
Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm
by pneuma
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.
Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.
ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.

If memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:42 pm
by spin
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.
Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.
ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.
Actually, Feldman translates eparchos wrongly as "procurator" (see link). I corrected in to "prefect" from the Greek.
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm
If memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.
The Greek word understood to indicate a procurator is epitropos.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:53 pm
by pneuma
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:42 pm
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:08 am
spin do you have a link that I can look up?
spin wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:58 am
I was working only on recollection having seen his argument some time back, but perhaps if you googled "carrier procurator prefect"....
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:04 am
Oops my bad. I meant a link to the works of Josephus that tells it differently then the one I quoted.
Sadly, not everything we want is online. I was using the Loeb edition of Josephus volume 12, which contains Jewish Antiquities books 18 and 19, Louis H. Feldman, (1965) 2000. This is a modern scholarly translation with the Greek text.
ok thanks. However the case maybe eparchos and the Greek word for Prefect are 2 different Greek words and according to what you quoted in

(18.2.2) says Annius Rufus succeeded Ambivulus and his successor, Valerius Gratus, was an eparchos, a prefect,

it looks like Feldman is saying eparchos means Prefect.
Actually, Feldman translates eparchos wrongly as "procurator" (see link). I corrected in to "prefect" from the Greek.
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:31 pm
If memory serves me correctly, I believe Josephus uses more then 1 Greek word when speaking about eparchos, but will have to double check and get back to you on it.
The Greek word understood to indicate a procurator is epitropos.
Well if Feldman translated it the same why as in the quote I gave how is Feldmans translation any better then the one I gave?

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:01 pm
by pneuma
Also if I am reading the link correctly eparchos should be translated commander.

Great link by the way. thanks, it is now on my favorites.

Re: Pontius Pilate

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:33 pm
by spin
pneuma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:01 pm
Also if I am reading the link correctly eparchos should be translated commander.
I think you need to look at the rest of the entry for eparchos, including "Lat. praefectus (in all senses)" and what follows!