Hans Jansen on the historicity of Muhammad

Discussion about the Quran, hadith, the history of Islam, etc.
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ghost
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Hans Jansen on the historicity of Muhammad

Post by ghost » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:58 pm

http://europenews.dk/files/The%20histor ... hammad.pdf
The historicity of Muhammad, Aisha and who knows who else
Hans Jansen, http://www.arabistjansen.nl
Copenhagen, May 2011

Huon
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The Teaching of Jacob

Post by Huon » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:43 am

The Teaching of Jacob (Ancient Greek: Διδασκαλία Ἰακώβου, Didaskalia Iakobou; Ethiopic Sargis d'Aberga), is a 7th-century Greek Christian anti-Jewish polemical tract set in Carthage in 634 but written in Palestine sometime between 634 and 640. It supposedly records a July 13, 634 discussion between a Jewish forced to convert to Christianity, Jacob, and some Jews about the condition of the Byzantine Empire in light of the recent Arab conquests, and how they should proceed as he had done, and convert to Christianity.

The text provides one of the earliest external accounts of Islam, presenting a significantly different Islamic historiography than found in traditional Islamic texts. It also shows Jacob comparing the Byzantine Empire to the fourth beast of the prophecy of Daniel from Christian eschatology. Although not unfamiliar imagery, it is part of a series of Byzantine literature, from the early stages of the Islamic religion, of trying to reconcile Islam with the apocalyptic vision. Further examples of this are contained in the pseudo-Athanasian's Quaestiones ad Antiochum ducem, and the Quaestiones et responsiones attributed to Anastasius of Sinai.

It records a prophet in Arabia during the birth time of Islamic tradition proclaiming the advent of a Jewish Messiah. The document contradicts the notion in Islamic tradition that the prophet was dead at the time of the conquest of Palestine but agrees with some traditions of other peoples of the time.

When the candidatus was killed by the Saracens, I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared." So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible.

Sykamina : Shiqmona, Tel es Samak, near Haifa

Duvduv
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Re: Hans Jansen on the historicity of Muhammad

Post by Duvduv » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:13 am

Doesn't sound like it specifically relates to Muhammad, about whom the Arabs themselves did not write anything until Tabari, about 200 years after Muhammad is said to have died. Of course this was already under the Abbasid caliphate, which is when it appears that Islam was created to unify the various Arab tribes.

ghost
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Re: The Teaching of Jacob

Post by ghost » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:40 pm

Huon wrote:Islam
Once again, they provide no evidence that this is Ibn Hisham's Mohammedanism.
Arabia
The term "Arabia" back then referred to wherever the Arabs happened to live (Arab + -ia). It usually meant regions in the Fertile Crescent or in Greater Syria. It did not necessarily refer to the Arabian Peninsula or to what is now Saudi Arabia.
Christ
Ibn Hisham's Muhammad does not predict a "second coming" of a Christ. Show where in Ibn Hisham it says that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =557997211

Huon
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Re: Hans Jansen on the historicity of Muhammad

Post by Huon » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:33 am

Ibn Hisham died in 828 or 830 CE. The Teaching of Jacob is dated between 634 and 640. Is it normal that the Teaching of Jacob does not quote Ibn Hisham ?

ghost
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Re: Hans Jansen on the historicity of Muhammad

Post by ghost » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:03 am

Huon wrote:Is it normal that the Teaching of Jacob does not quote Ibn Hisham ?
Yes. And you are missing the point. The point is that Doctrina Jacobi says that a prophet anticipates a coming of a Christ, while Ibn Hisham does not say that Mohammed anticipates the coming of a Christ.

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