The infidels:

Discussion about the Quran, hadith, the history of Islam, etc.
User avatar
JPCusickSr
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am
Location: 20636
Contact:

The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:05 am

The name "infidel" is so misunderstood that it needs to be defined more accurate in religious terms as it belongs.

It has the same root meaning as infidelity - which is being unfaithful to thy spouse - and of fidelity = being faithful.

An infidel is a person who is unfaithful to their own religion.

As such a Muslim infidel is one who is unfaithful to Islam.

A Christian infidel is unfaithful to Christianity.

It has nothing to do with belief, because an unbeliever is just that = an unbeliever - they are not infidel(s) because if there is no belief or root in the first place then there is no infidelity.

America is some times called an infidel Country and that is because we were known as a Christian Country and now we are unfaithful to our roots, and even aside from Christianity we have an infidelity to God going on.

There is of course a human claim to the fidelity to God (a God by any name or application) and so an opposition to God can make one into an infidel too.

Being anti-God is not the same as an honest claim to being an Atheist, because anti-God would be an infidel to the rest of humanity.

Just saying - FYI. :cheers:

outhouse
Posts: 3532
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:06 pm

JPCusickSr wrote:
Just saying - FYI. :cheers:

While correct it is rather a static way to look at it. And language is often not static.

Context is not always the same.

User avatar
JPCusickSr
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am
Location: 20636
Contact:

Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:23 am

outhouse wrote: While correct it is rather a static way to look at it. And language is often not static.

Context is not always the same.
I have noticed some of your other comments, Mr. "outhouse", and I see that you are anti-Islam, so you sharing a subdued response here to my comment is surprising but still it is appreciated, because no one else will join the discussion.

So to follow up ~ my point was to demonstrate that when other people of the world see the USA as "infidels" then it is because the USA is unfaithful to our own standards and being untrue to our own roots.

Calling the USA as a Country of infidels or as an infidel Country does not mean it is being accused of being unfaithful to the religion of Islam.

No one expects the USA to have fidelity to Islam.

What is being said is that the USA is an infidel to Christianity, and infidelity to God, and being untrustworthy and unfaithful to our fellow human beings.

This same is true for the State of Israel who are being infidels by being untrue to their own Judaism.

This is an important distinction against the American propaganda - as if we are not the aggressors.
SIGNATURE:
JP Cusick Sr.

User avatar
JPCusickSr
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am
Location: 20636
Contact:

Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:25 am

outhouse wrote: Its not about the west, it is about people who have no leader, no governing power, and worst of all no moderation. It is wild and free and barbaric. No control what so ever.
It is foolish on the part of "the west" to keep assassinating the Muslim leaders and to keep preventing the creation of a real Caliphate because then there would be a central authority whom we could make peace and establish realistic parameters and that can only be done with a true functioning Caliphate.

But of course we know that "the west" does not want any real peace so a Caliphate is not wanted, and assassinating (murdering) the Muslim leaders is a show of our true morality.

It is peculiar that many Americans want less gov and want to be wild and free, but then Americans condemn both the freedom and a central gov (a Caliphate) from the Muslims. That is very similar to an oxymoron.
outhouse wrote: They never knew we would one day find out characters like Abraham, moses, noah, the exodus, all 100% fiction and never existed in reality. and they will never admit to living a lie as deep as they are required to follow. No facts will ever be accepted no matter how well presented,
That is true for many Christians and Jews too.

The Bible was only to point people in the direction of God, and not to the Patriarchs or the Prophets or to Saints.

All people are afraid of the real God, and it is really hard for any person to get past that extreme human fear.
SIGNATURE:
JP Cusick Sr.

iskander
Posts: 1903
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The infidels:

Post by iskander » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:49 am

JPCusickSr wrote:The name "infidel" is so misunderstood that it needs to be defined more accurate in religious terms as it belongs.

It has the same root meaning as infidelity - which is being unfaithful to thy spouse - and of fidelity = being faithful.

An infidel is a person who is unfaithful to their own religion.

As such a Muslim infidel is one who is unfaithful to Islam.

A Christian infidel is unfaithful to Christianity.

It has nothing to do with belief, because an unbeliever is just that = an unbeliever - they are not infidel(s) because if there is no belief or root in the first place then there is no infidelity.

America is some times called an infidel Country and that is because we were known as a Christian Country and now we are unfaithful to our roots, and even aside from Christianity we have an infidelity to God going on.

There is of course a human claim to the fidelity to God (a God by any name or application) and so an opposition to God can make one into an infidel too.

Being anti-God is not the same as an honest claim to being an Atheist, because anti-God would be an infidel to the rest of humanity.

Just saying - FYI. :cheers:
In this Hadith , "infidel" seems to mean' unbeliever'
Sahih Bukhari Volume 001, Book 003, Hadith Number 087.
They said, "We have come to you from a distant place and there is the tribe of the infidels of Mudar intervening between you and us and we cannot come to you except in the sacred month
http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim ... r-087.html

This meaning is confirmed in
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5kR ... ar&f=false
it says this tribe " was against the Muslims"

outhouse
Posts: 3532
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:11 pm

JPCusickSr wrote: That is true for many Christians and Jews too.
.
But all of islam is fundamentalism

Like YEC are all fundamentalist, the same as orthodox Jews.

Not all Jews or Christians are religious whack jobs like all the dishonesty in islam. Many know moderation which is not tolerated in islam.


One cannot be muslim without refusing reality, just like YEC which is a small part of Christianity and the same applies to orthodox Jews.

User avatar
JPCusickSr
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am
Location: 20636
Contact:

Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:14 am

iskander wrote: In this Hadith , "infidel" seems to mean' unbeliever'
If we must play semantics then so be it.

If an unbeliever use to believe then yes they would thereby fall under the name of an infidel.

If an unbeliever was never a believer then they would not be an infidel.

If a person is a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew and they fall away from their own faith then they are infidel.

If a person converts to another religion then they are not unbelievers, but if they turn hostile against their past religion then they are infidel.

An unbeliever means = to not believe, while an infidel means infidelity to God.

Semantics:
:cheers: ........... LOL
SIGNATURE:
JP Cusick Sr.

User avatar
JPCusickSr
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 am
Location: 20636
Contact:

Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:18 am

outhouse wrote: Really all I hear is Islamic rhetoric.
Yes.

This is the section of the forum where we are to talk about Muslim and Islam.

:notworthy:
SIGNATURE:
JP Cusick Sr.

iskander
Posts: 1903
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: The infidels:

Post by iskander » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:21 am

Semantics???
It is an example of how 'infidels ' is used in the Hadith. There are more examples , but I do not wish to communicate with you anymore .
Have a nice day.

outhouse
Posts: 3532
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:24 am

JPCusickSr wrote:
outhouse wrote: Really all I hear is Islamic rhetoric.
Yes.

This is the section of the forum where we are to talk about Muslim and Islam.

:notworthy:
You think rhetoric is valuable way of communication? very dishonest

Post Reply