The infidels:

Discussion about the Quran, hadith, the history of Islam, etc.
outhouse
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Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:34 pm

JPCusickSr wrote:
As to humanity - that is not a true concern.

These primitive religions for barbaric people WERE created to better humanity.

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JPCusickSr
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Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:13 am

outhouse wrote: El is not Yahweh and that is a fact not up for debate.
No one really knows what "el" singular really means, and I agree that El is not or was not associated with Yahweh.

And even Father has a plural meaning because there must be at least one child and a mother in order to be a Father and therefore it too is plural.

The point being is that humans claim monotheism while the scriptures do not.

Plus the name Allah is the Aramaic word for Elohim, and even though Muslims reject this - the name Allah and Elohim are plural, and in the Holy Qur'an it repeatedly has God / Allah speaking in the plural as we. Over and over it say we, we, we, as a plural God.

The name "Yahweh Elohim" is best explained by the "United States" in that "united" means plural and "states" is plural and yet the plurals make up one (1) Country.
outhouse wrote: These primitive religions for barbaric people WERE created to better humanity.
Yes - I understand that - and I am not really against bettering humanity - but we must not play God as if we are God and humanity our pawn.

People do this all the time of claiming to serve humanity while failing to do their duty to their neighbors, while God tells us to serve our neighbors and let God handle His own job.

An example would be a person sending donations to the U.N. Food Program but refusing to help the homeless people in their own town.
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outhouse
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Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:14 am

JPCusickSr wrote:No one really knows what "el" singular really means,.

yes we do.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

Its the same god Israelites plagiarized from their Canaanite origins, the same myths islam copied from biblical traditions

Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion[3] and the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period.[4]

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Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:12 am

outhouse wrote: yes we do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)
Saying that "el" means Deity or means God is not really a translation of the word.

But I still agree that El was the Deity and it was the God.

Being shallow is quite enough for that word.
outhouse wrote: Its the same god Israelites plagiarized from their Canaanite origins, the same myths islam copied from biblical traditions
When they are all referring to the same Deity then of course they all use the same word and same name.

It is called = continuation - not plagiarism.

When one knows the Creator-God as real living entity (as I do), then we must expect to find the real God in every part of humanity and in every part of the earth and beyond.

So the real God interacting with the Canaanites and the Egyptians and Mesopotamian and American Indians ~ is not a surprise.
outhouse wrote: Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion[3] and the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period.[4]
And now El is the supreme God for the entire human race into the 21st century.

It has no real meaning, and so that makes it very fitting.

The English name "God" is an inaccurate word with an inaccurate meaning, and yet we use that wrong name too.

The most accurate name is Father, or Father-Creator, or to be contemporary = Father-God, or even Father-El.

Modern science will surely come up with an even more exotic name for whatever the Creator happens to be.
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outhouse
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Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:48 am

JPCusickSr wrote: Saying that "el" means Deity or means God is not really a translation of the word.
.

You are simply ignoring the word evolved over time as I already suggested.

The definition changed and El is probably the oldest of all singular gods to date, worshipped over the longest periods of time.

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Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:51 am

JPCusickSr wrote: .
Modern science will surely come up with an even more exotic name for whatever the Creator happens to be.


No science ignores fiction.

A creator factually does not exist in reality at this time, it is fictional mythic theology.

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Re: The infidels:

Post by JPCusickSr » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:30 am

outhouse wrote: No science ignores fiction.

A creator factually does not exist in reality at this time, it is fictional mythic theology.
Science has already given far grander miracles than any such miracle given in any scriptures of the world.

The earth being a huge sphere spinning at high speed perfectly in empty space being held and protected by invisible forces of physics - is way beyond raising some person from the dead or walking on water.

And science gave real proof of the Creation Day with the Big Bang, and that Big-Bang science tells us of a far grander miracle then = "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ..."

Even evolution is a far more sophisticated evidence (miracle) of God than any given in any scriptures.

And I really do love the theory of multiple-parallel-universes as it explains the working of God in so much better terms and a better God.

So I do expect to hear that modern science will come up with an even more exotic name for whatever the Creator happens to be.

I like the premises given in the Star Trek movie 1979, when v-ger could not see the Creator because v-ger expected its God to be in its own image.
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outhouse
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Re: The infidels:

Post by outhouse » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:07 pm

JPCusickSr wrote: more exotic name for whatever the Creator happens to be.

.

Imagination and fiction already cover it 100%

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Re: The infidels:

Post by Thor » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:26 pm

JPCusickSr wrote:The name "infidel" is so misunderstood that it needs to be defined more accurate in religious terms as it belongs.

It has the same root meaning as infidelity - which is being unfaithful to thy spouse - and of fidelity = being faithful.

An infidel is a person who is unfaithful to their own religion.

As such a Muslim infidel is one who is unfaithful to Islam.
According to Islam every child is born as a Muslim ( Fitra ), Everyone is unfaithful to Islam until they come back into the fold. Am I not correct?

If so, Muslims who call Americans for infidels do so because their religion tells them that Americans are Muslims who have fallen away. All who will not submit are Infidels.

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Re: The infidels:

Post by El Dorado » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:17 pm

Thor wrote:
JPCusickSr wrote:The name "infidel" is so misunderstood that it needs to be defined more accurate in religious terms as it belongs.

It has the same root meaning as infidelity - which is being unfaithful to thy spouse - and of fidelity = being faithful.

An infidel is a person who is unfaithful to their own religion.

As such a Muslim infidel is one who is unfaithful to Islam.
According to Islam every child is born as a Muslim ( Fitra ), Everyone is unfaithful to Islam until they come back into the fold. Am I not correct?

If so, Muslims who call Americans for infidels do so because their religion tells them that Americans are Muslims who have fallen away. All who will not submit are Infidels.
And ^THIS^ is why I joined, to learn something new every day :idea: .... and today I learn I am a Muslim :shock: and a bad one to boot. :eek:
.... my stress level just went up ....
:cheeky:

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