sentenced to death for atheism’

Discussion about the Quran, hadith, the history of Islam, etc.
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Secret Alias
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:10 am

I have to admit being a naturalized American and coming from a more cosmopolitan origin it is very difficult to adapt to the widespread bigotry and stupidity in this country. Surely greatness lies within the individual, wherever he was born or from whatever culture he emerged. Being a Muslim, being a Christian, being a Jew does not make one superior or wretched. Greatness lies in the individual reshaping the mud of his birth into something sublime within his limited time on this earth. To say that one group of clowns is more clownish or wretched than another group of clowns is just clown-speak.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Ulan
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Ulan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:20 am

It's somewhat funny to read this thread. Most people in the US seem to be completely ignorant of the true causes of the latest turmoils, or their crucial responsibility in this. At least I see this time and again.

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Secret Alias
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:37 am

Anyone who earnestly believes that their side is always right and another side who opposes them is always wrong is probably an idiot. Even when the 'Western civilization' argument is made i.e. that 'the West' is always best and everyone else is always bad this is a form of stupidity. The West is always best because it won the wars against the rest of the world. England for one and later America had geographical advantages which certainly help it succeed against its/their enemies. I like living in America but I think I will move back to Canada in the near future. Too much unnecessary turbulence and idiocy in my present place of residence.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:42 am

This is the greediest country on the earth. Religion here is little more than the ritualized veneration of avarice. Selfishness is celebrated unashamedly as THE national virtue and anything that gets in the way of the individual's right to accumulate wealth is written off as totalitarian, Marxist, socialist - whatever helps make the rich stay rich. If life on earth ends it will be owing to someone or some country being perceived as getting in the way of America and Americans right to accumulate wealth without restriction.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Ulan
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Ulan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:17 pm

To be fair, I had been living in the US for more than a decade, and I loved the land and the people (still do). My reason to leave had nothing to do with anything any people there or the US government did; it was a family issue in Europe. However, I see that people there tend to treat anything that happens outside of their own country like a TV show. It isn't "real". The fact that US troops went to some Muslim countries and frivolously killed hundreds of thousands of people there, without any tangible reason, doesn't even reach the minds of many Americans. The families and neighbors of those that have been killed remember though.

This also poisons the US-European relationship at the moment. The European governments never fail to sing the praise of the special transatlantic relationship, because that relationship is convenient. It saves Europe a lot of money (whatever you think of him, Trump is right regarding this specific point). However, the people in Europe see the price for this. You can ask around anywhere you want, but the anti-US sentiments run through all layers of society here. I was actually a bit shocked when I came back how deep this ran. But it's this: in principle, many Europeans see the US behind most of their problems (those related to foreign affairs) at the moment, of course with Muslim terrorism at the forefront (also the Ukrainian crisis and the current economic war with Russia). I don't quite get it, but Putin is relatively well liked. These are tangents though, except in the Syria crisis, where, unlike what European governments said, most people in Europe were relieved at what Putin wanted to achieve.

The main issue is decades of a catastrophically bad Near East policy by different US governments. Iran was a functioning democracy, which was basically destroyed by US meddling, at that time pushed by Britain. In principle, the US is responsible for the government Iran has today. The Taliban are also a US product. Those were financed and pushed to power because of the usual power play between the US and Russia. As much of a scumbag our former chancellor was, I still have some respect for him that he made us reject the request to make war on Iraq. Funny enough, his analysis of the time was spot on. Not only was the reason to go to war fake, he was also right with the point that doing this would hand over Iraq to Iran. Which is what basically happened. Southern Iraq is part of the Iranian influence sphere. The North didn't want to follow suit, so the IS "happened". It's a direct consequence of that ill-conceived war.

By the way, I don't want to white-wash the Europeans themselves here. They bear their share of the fault. Britain wanted to please the US at all times. Poland wanted help against "evil Russia". Our government felt it couldn't say No a second time when Afghanistan came up. Of course, they also had delusions of grandeur. They thought they could apply for a permanent seat in the UN Council ( :lol: ), and what better way is there to show that you are one of the big boys than to go to some Muslim country and kill some of the natives? Well, it didn't work out. They still represent a leading part of the effort there, and of course that also makes them one of the prime targets for hate from the Muslim side.

The second major mistake the Europeans made is lack of proper integration of those Muslim immigrants that have been coming since the 1960's. Second or third generation immigrants are still treated like foreigners. The older generation were fine with that treatment, because they felt like foreigners themselves. They knew it wouldn't be easy. The young generation though feels that they are owed equal treatment, and they don't get it. That's the main reason why some of them fall for these extremist islamist preachers. They feel wronged and have nothing to lose. There's also those that have been denied immigrant status, but even their own countries don't want to have them back, so they sit there and cannot do anything but brood. Those people become fanatics, but they don't even know anything about their own faith, except the bit of propaganda they were fed.

You may notice that I didn't talk too much about Islam here. I don't think it's an important factor in all of this. Even Al Qaeda, which is a genuine Muslim product, would have never risen without people constantly and casually being wronged by ill-conceived Western policies in the countries of the Near East. Al Qaeda is a Saudi product btw. But those are our friends. Even Donald T.'s.

I don't want to see this mistaken as some anti-American rant. As I said, I still love the land and the people. I see this more as a modern tragedy that has been unfolding for decades now.

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Secret Alias
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:04 pm

You can ask around anywhere you want, but the anti-US sentiments run through all layers of society here.
I live here still. You know what it reminds me of every day? Arguing with someone who doesn't hear what you are actually saying but constantly - and I mean constantly - has this filter set which transforms what you are saying into familiar 'talking points' that they've memorized rather unconsciously. My wife (who is also Canadian) and I had this discussion over lunch today. In most cultures there are a massive number of stupid people and something like 5% of the top are well traveled sophisticated people. In Europe maybe the top is like 35 - 50%. In Canada its about the same. I think it has a relationship with a high rate of post-secondary education. People here are basically dumb and feel no need to learn anything or once they leave high school (whether or not they graduated).

The facts are that about 40% of the country are epitomized by Donald Trump. I think George W Bush tried to hide his aristocratic roots. But Trump nails it. If they had a motto it would be "Get Rich or Die Trying." That's what this country has come down to. There is no reasoning with these people. There is no point of dialogue. The entire country is 'post-truth' - it's Nietzschean not because they are all sitting around writing aphorisms and clever observations but 'Nietzschean' in the way the Kevin Klein character in a Fish Called Wanda was Nietzschean. There is no truth, everything is subjective and every song, every tattoo makes mention of 'what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.'

We have neighbors who work at a hospital who are ardent Trump supporters and big R Republicans. I am rather gregarious so I talk this guy all the time. A couple of months ago he told me that there are going to big cuts at the hospital because of the Republican efforts to curb Medicare. In the same breath he told me he is still a rabid Trumpite. Guess what happened this week. He put up the house for sale; lost his job. Guess who he blames? The Democrats.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

james_C
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by james_C » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:35 am

good thing is we still have people like spin, ulan and secret alias who are an understanding people.

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Secret Alias
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:35 pm

My wife and I were at lunch today at Panera a restaurant I loathe but my wife has this strange obsession with (a) eating in a restaurant but at the same time (b) avoiding fried food - very difficult in America. I came up with this observation. In no other nation is behaving like an asshole, a dick - a general malcontent - acceptable save for this country (at least any notable country in the world). This is what distinguishes us from the rest of the world.

'I am nice until I don't get my way and then "the gloves are off."' Trump in a nutshell. In Canada we were taught that there is an appropriate way of behaving in public, a proper way of addressing people. Not here. The only reason people are civil to one another is the fear the other guy 'might be packing.'

I am laughing when I write this but you couldn't make up how stupid things are. It actually cracks me up everyday. If there's a god for Americans he's like Trump. Trump is America in a way no other President before him ever was (at least in recent memory). It's quite hilarious and terrifyingly horrible all at the same time. 360 million people with unbridled and hopelessly fragile egos bumping into one another everyday. Somethings gotta give.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

outhouse
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by outhouse » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:56 pm

Islamic scum in Canada

Police released video showing a white Chevrolet Malibu ramming into a police officer standing in front of his cruiser. The officer is sent flying in the air while the Malibu crashes into the police car. The driver then gets out and appears to stab the officer.


Knecht said the suspect fled on foot after stabbing the officer.

outhouse
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Re: sentenced to death for atheism’

Post by outhouse » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:57 pm

james_C wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:35 am
good thing is we still have people like spin, ulan and secret alias who are an understanding people.
Hopefully he gets back from his ANTIFA rally sopon

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