Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
What say you?
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
I say it is possible. I think at the very least the idea is worth considering. I mean, worth exploring. Because it is relatively clear that the core idea of the Mohammed story is derived from the Jesus story. But then what also matters is the plot and the components of the story.beowulf wrote:What say you?
I suspect the writers of the Mohammed story took the Jesus story and added a lot of Arab-imperialist elements on top of that. And they also added elements from Zoroastrianism, since the Arabs came out of the Zoroastrian Sassanid Persian Empire. The story of the creation of the Koran is probably a trope from Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrian religious text is said to have been created in a similar way.
Also, Hans Jansen says the Mohammed story has elements from the Book of Judges.
Else it's also worth considering where else the elements of the Mohammed story could have come from by taking the historical context into account.
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
Is the Jesus story derived from the Moses story? The most talented and knowledgeable of our fellow men and women think this to be most likely. How to divert their capability from the Moses-Jesus task to the Mohamed-Jesus research is what is needed.ghost wrote:I say it is possible. I think at the very least the idea is worth considering. I mean, worth exploring. Because it is relatively clear that the core idea of the Mohammed story is derived from the Jesus story. But then what also matters is the plot and the components of the story.beowulf wrote:What say you?
I suspect the writers of the Mohammed story took the Jesus story and added a lot of Arab-imperialist elements on top of that. And they also added elements from Zoroastrianism, since the Arabs came out of the Zoroastrian Sassanid Persian Empire. The story of the creation of the Koran is probably a trope from Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrian religious text is said to have been created in a similar way.
Also, Hans Jansen says the Mohammed story has elements from the Book of Judges.
Else it's also worth considering where else the elements of the Mohammed story could have come from by taking the historical context into account.
Is any alpha intellect already exploring this possibility?
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
I'm not aware of any.beowulf wrote:Is any alpha intellect already exploring this possibility?
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
Discovering a biblical fact has more to do with show business than with the truth of the matter; it involves rewriting the original to catch the mood of the time.ghost wrote:I'm not aware of any.beowulf wrote:Is any alpha intellect already exploring this possibility?
Reinventing Islam is not as rewarding for script writers as it is to reinvent Christianity as an imitation of the Odyssey, or having its origin in astrology or whatever.
I don’t think this project has a future and it is very risky.
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
Here is another thing that is possible… If the Mohammed story is a result of euhemerization of someone other than Caesar or someone in the Caesar story,…
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/esumma.html
…then I think the ones most likely to have been euhemerized are the Damascus-based rulers of the Arab empire, especially Maavia or Malik…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... 0.93750.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiyah_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Malik_ibn_Marwan
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/esumma.html
…then I think the ones most likely to have been euhemerized are the Damascus-based rulers of the Arab empire, especially Maavia or Malik…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... 0.93750.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiyah_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Malik_ibn_Marwan
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
Herod is also an option. The Aqsa mosque is on Herod temple spolia…
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail ... storation/
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail ... storation/
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
[quote] Because it is relatively clear that the core idea of the Mohammed story is derived from the Jesus story. [/quote]
No that is not very clear at all. I see very few similarities and a great number of a fundamental differences in the two myths. Mohammed ( or the person/people who created the stories in the Koran ) was clearly hugely influenced by Judaism and Christianity, but that's not the same as Mohammed being based on Jesus. I guess what you are getting at is they are both "messianic prophets" (for lack of a better term) of Yahweh that found a new religion. So the "concept" of having a messianic prophet found your religion, that may be derived from Christianity and Judaism, who did it first.
But to claim the story/myth of Mohammed is based on the story/myth of Christ, you have to show similar story elements, events, etc. Not just the idea to write a story of a certain genre.
[quote]I suspect the writers of the Mohammed story took the Jesus story and added a lot of Arab-imperialist elements on top of that. [/quote]
Very unlikely. The stories contain many differences and very few similarities in plot, story elements, character. Also, Jesus is already in the Koran, if someone was copying the Jesus myth they wouldn't have also included him as a separate character. That's like telling a story about Jupiter but also having a side character of Zeus.
[quote]And they also added elements from Zoroastrianism, since the Arabs came out of the Zoroastrian Sassanid Persian Empire. The story of the creation of the Koran is probably a trope from Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrian religious text is said to have been created in a similar way.
Also, Hans Jansen says the Mohammed story has elements from the Book of Judges.[/quote]
You've already gone off your own topic. Lets not muddy up the debate with a different idea altogether, that the Koran is inspired by Zoroastrianism. (it may be, but that's a new topic).
No that is not very clear at all. I see very few similarities and a great number of a fundamental differences in the two myths. Mohammed ( or the person/people who created the stories in the Koran ) was clearly hugely influenced by Judaism and Christianity, but that's not the same as Mohammed being based on Jesus. I guess what you are getting at is they are both "messianic prophets" (for lack of a better term) of Yahweh that found a new religion. So the "concept" of having a messianic prophet found your religion, that may be derived from Christianity and Judaism, who did it first.
But to claim the story/myth of Mohammed is based on the story/myth of Christ, you have to show similar story elements, events, etc. Not just the idea to write a story of a certain genre.
[quote]I suspect the writers of the Mohammed story took the Jesus story and added a lot of Arab-imperialist elements on top of that. [/quote]
Very unlikely. The stories contain many differences and very few similarities in plot, story elements, character. Also, Jesus is already in the Koran, if someone was copying the Jesus myth they wouldn't have also included him as a separate character. That's like telling a story about Jupiter but also having a side character of Zeus.
[quote]And they also added elements from Zoroastrianism, since the Arabs came out of the Zoroastrian Sassanid Persian Empire. The story of the creation of the Koran is probably a trope from Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrian religious text is said to have been created in a similar way.
Also, Hans Jansen says the Mohammed story has elements from the Book of Judges.[/quote]
You've already gone off your own topic. Lets not muddy up the debate with a different idea altogether, that the Koran is inspired by Zoroastrianism. (it may be, but that's a new topic).
Re: Is the Mohammed story derived from the Jesus story?
"Muhammad" was a christological title to the Omayads. That's why the first suspect for rewriting is Jesus.
http://en.qantara.de/content/interview- ... ific-title
http://en.qantara.de/content/interview- ... ific-title