Questions about Emergence of Islam

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ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Huon wrote:What "ghost" calls a mosque in Córdoba was the Wisigothic cathedral of this town
No. I'm not referring to the Wisigothic San Vicente cathedral. I'm referring to the later construction, the hall with the columns and the brick-and-stone arches:

http://www.islamfacts.info/Islamfacts/M ... C_0359.jpg

That is not oriented towards Mecca. It's oriented more to the south than Mecca. That's because it was a Christian prayer hall.
before the invasion of the muslims.
No. There is no evidence that they were Mohammedans, at least not in the Ibn Hisham "biography" sense of "Muhammad". The word "muhammad" initially meant "blessed"/"benedictus"/"Christ"/"praiseworthy", and referred to the Christian Jesus of the Christian Jesus myth.

The "invasion" was enabled in part because the "invaded" ones were "Arian" Christians, and the "invaders" were also "Arian" Christians. They both believed that Jesus was mortal instead of eternal. At least the "invaders" were Alidic.
showing the direction of Mecca
No. Show the evidence.
Last edited by ghost on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
ghost
Posts: 503
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Duvduv wrote:Then there is the unexplored issue of the emergence of the Shia,
According to Jan Beaufort, Arius is Ali, and Alidism and early Christianity are derived from Mandeism. Also important to the emergence of Islam is Illig's phantom-time hypothesis (PhTH). Tabari is suspected of creating phantom time (PhT).

http://www.cybis.se/forfun/dendro/holls ... /index.htm
http://www.fantomzeit.de/?p=70
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Roger Pearse wrote:I don't honestly see why we don't accept the normal narrative of Moslem origins; a tough with a tendency to visions who worked up his own religion and state,
Show Ibn Hisham's "biography" of Muhammad is historically reliable. Because that is what all "biographies" of Muhammad go back to.
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Huon wrote:Petra Sijpesteijn
The problem is Sijpesteijn does not show in this Radio Netherlands interview that the word "muhammad" in the Egyptian papyri refers to the Muhammad of Ibn Hisham's "biography" of Muhammad as opposed to the "blessed" Christian Jesus of the Christian Jesus myth, and that the word "islam"/"muslim" refers to "submission"/"subjugation" in the sense since the 9th century AD Abbasids as opposed to "concordance" in the sense before the Abbasids. The relevant details are missing.
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Peter Kirby wrote:
DuvDuv wrote:4) Why are so many figures associated with Muhammad never mentioned in the Quran, i.e. Ali??
Muhammad isn't mentioned either. The word "muhammad" appears only about four times and does not refer to Muhammad.
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Peter Kirby wrote:
DuvDuv wrote:4) Why are so many figures associated with Muhammad never mentioned in the Quran, i.e. Ali??
Muhammad isn't mentioned either. The word "muhammad" appears about four times and does not refer to Muhammad.
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Peter Kirby wrote:
DuvDuv wrote:5) How could Ali and then Hussein have engaged in a "war" with the Damascus Islamic caliphate in Kufa, Iraq which is so far away from Damascus?
Both the Ali myth and the Muhammad myth are versions of the Jesus myth. Mesopotamia was part of the Greater Syria cultural region. The Alidites are probably derived from the Arian Christians.
Duvduv
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by Duvduv »

I had postulated that veneration of Ali existed in some gnostic or syncretic sect unrelated to, and preceding Islam, which was later accommodated by the Abbasid regime. But the idea of a full blown Islamic caliphate in Damascus in conflict with a leading Islamic leader so far away in Kufa so soon after the prophet's death seems very dubious even according to Sunni claims.
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

Duvduv wrote:I had postulated that veneration of Ali existed in some gnostic or syncretic sect unrelated to, and preceding Islam, which was later accommodated by the Abbasid regime.
The following is cited by Beaufort:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/gno/gjb/index.htm
Gnostic John the Baptizer:

Selections from the Mandæan John-Book

by G. R. S. Mead

[1924]
ghost
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Re: Questions about Emergence of Islam

Post by ghost »

http://en.qantara.de/content/islamic-st ... -the-koran
Islamic Studies
On Christian Strophes in the Koran
In his life's work, German theologian Günter Lüling challenges Islam to a Reformation. Wolfgang Günter Lerch read his book "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation"
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